Discussion:
Medium wave exodus
(too old to reply)
Brian Gaff
2023-01-20 16:10:03 UTC
Permalink
Now I can hear the stations running just loops telling people to use other
bands, it is certainly true there are some exceptions and some
ramifications. Absolute are running their loop, not just notched old 25
47m but at least 3 other frequencies, Hits radio or whatever they are called
this week have a lot of channels affected. However, The god channel,
Premier, and LBC and a lot of ethnic stations are still on there.
Does this mean we can look forward to a lot of new MW pirates in a few
moths time I wonder.

Also why has Car Sick FM put its free channel into mono?. I'd have thought
as the only Global station for classical music, they might have left it
stereo. Its a shame as they might have even had room for more channels and a
truly surround sound radio station.
Brian
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Scott
2023-01-20 16:40:21 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 16:10:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
Now I can hear the stations running just loops telling people to use other
bands, it is certainly true there are some exceptions and some
ramifications. Absolute are running their loop, not just notched old 25
47m but at least 3 other frequencies, Hits radio or whatever they are called
this week have a lot of channels affected. However, The god channel,
Premier, and LBC and a lot of ethnic stations are still on there.
Does this mean we can look forward to a lot of new MW pirates in a few
moths time I wonder.
Also why has Car Sick FM put its free channel into mono?. I'd have thought
as the only Global station for classical music, they might have left it
stereo. Its a shame as they might have even had room for more channels and a
truly surround sound radio station.
What free channel are you referring to and on what platform? FM, DAB
and the Global Player are all free. Freeview? Freesat?
Brian Gaff
2023-01-21 11:03:54 UTC
Permalink
That should have said Freeview, for car sick FM but it does seem a backward
step if we are all going digital. The FM Global stations are in Stereo.
Brian
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Post by Brian Gaff
Now I can hear the stations running just loops telling people to use other
bands, it is certainly true there are some exceptions and some
ramifications. Absolute are running their loop, not just notched old 25
47m but at least 3 other frequencies, Hits radio or whatever they are
called this week have a lot of channels affected. However, The god
channel, Premier, and LBC and a lot of ethnic stations are still on there.
Does this mean we can look forward to a lot of new MW pirates in a few
moths time I wonder.
Also why has Car Sick FM put its free channel into mono?. I'd have
thought as the only Global station for classical music, they might have
left it stereo. Its a shame as they might have even had room for more
channels and a truly surround sound radio station.
Brian
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Scott
2023-01-21 11:13:46 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:03:54 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
That should have said Freeview, for car sick FM but it does seem a backward
step if we are all going digital. The FM Global stations are in Stereo.
Brian
I agree this is a bit odd. Any savings for Global must be pretty
minimal. That said, my impression is that Freeview is on its way out
and the 'powers that be' would prefer to move to online distribution.
Tweed
2023-01-21 15:55:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:03:54 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
That should have said Freeview, for car sick FM but it does seem a backward
step if we are all going digital. The FM Global stations are in Stereo.
Brian
I agree this is a bit odd. Any savings for Global must be pretty
minimal. That said, my impression is that Freeview is on its way out
and the 'powers that be' would prefer to move to online distribution.
Online has to get very much better for many people before Freeview can be
turned off. Another decade I reckon.
Robin
2023-01-21 16:09:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Scott
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:03:54 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
That should have said Freeview, for car sick FM but it does seem a backward
step if we are all going digital. The FM Global stations are in Stereo.
Brian
I agree this is a bit odd. Any savings for Global must be pretty
minimal. That said, my impression is that Freeview is on its way out
and the 'powers that be' would prefer to move to online distribution.
Online has to get very much better for many people before Freeview can be
turned off. Another decade I reckon.
In "Up next - the government’s vision for the broadcasting sector"[1]
last year the government asked OFCOM last year to report by the end of
2025 on the future of DTT. In the meantime they have protected options:
Freeview licences run to 2034 but can be revoked from 2030.

[1]
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/up-next-the-governments-vision-for-the-broadcasting-sector
--
Robin
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Brian Gaff
2023-01-22 13:35:59 UTC
Permalink
What about the freesat? I'd imagine in some very rural areas, this might
actually be the best way to get TV.
Getting back to radio though. Medium wave. What could we use it for? Its
not really big enough to do anything digital with it, and its propagation
changes with daylight and man made interference might make it hard to use at
all. Who remembers those early cordless phones that used 49mhz and top end
of medium wave. The medium wave to the hand set from a dangling wire at the
phone usually meant that even standing near your TV made it fizz and
crackle.
Perhaps control signals for some things short range? Maybe attempting some
DRM channels. We have used the 9khz bandwidth plan for am of course, but
some parts of the world use 10. Not very much.

However for talk it would work much of the time with good aerial
orientation.
Brian
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Post by Tweed
Post by Scott
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:03:54 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
That should have said Freeview, for car sick FM but it does seem a backward
step if we are all going digital. The FM Global stations are in Stereo.
Brian
I agree this is a bit odd. Any savings for Global must be pretty
minimal. That said, my impression is that Freeview is on its way out
and the 'powers that be' would prefer to move to online distribution.
Online has to get very much better for many people before Freeview can be
turned off. Another decade I reckon.
In "Up next - the government's vision for the broadcasting sector"[1] last
year the government asked OFCOM last year to report by the end of 2025 on
the future of DTT. In the meantime they have protected options: Freeview
licences run to 2034 but can be revoked from 2030.
[1]
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/up-next-the-governments-vision-for-the-broadcasting-sector
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Scott
2023-01-22 13:54:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 13:35:59 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
What about the freesat? I'd imagine in some very rural areas, this might
actually be the best way to get TV.
Getting back to radio though. Medium wave. What could we use it for? Its
not really big enough to do anything digital with it
What about DRM?
John Williamson
2023-01-22 14:26:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gaff
What about the freesat? I'd imagine in some very rural areas, this might
actually be the best way to get TV.
It's also very handy in some urban areas.
Post by Brian Gaff
Getting back to radio though. Medium wave. What could we use it for? Its
not really big enough to do anything digital with it, and its propagation
changes with daylight and man made interference might make it hard to use at
all.
The Americans are using frequencies in the Medium Wave band for combined
analogue and Digital Broadcasting. It needs 15kHz channel separation,
though, so here, t would need the frequency allocation scheme to be changed.

They also use the 88 to 108 MHz band for digital, in band with an
analogue signal, but due to the channel bandwidth they need, we can't
use the same system here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio
--
Tciao for Now!

John.
Scott
2023-01-22 14:35:47 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 14:26:46 +0000, John Williamson
Post by John Williamson
Post by Brian Gaff
What about the freesat? I'd imagine in some very rural areas, this might
actually be the best way to get TV.
It's also very handy in some urban areas.
Post by Brian Gaff
Getting back to radio though. Medium wave. What could we use it for? Its
not really big enough to do anything digital with it, and its propagation
changes with daylight and man made interference might make it hard to use at
all.
The Americans are using frequencies in the Medium Wave band for combined
analogue and Digital Broadcasting. It needs 15kHz channel separation,
though, so here, t would need the frequency allocation scheme to be changed.
What if you removed the analogue component. What would the channel
separation need to be then? Would this be the same thing as DRM?
Post by John Williamson
They also use the 88 to 108 MHz band for digital, in band with an
analogue signal, but due to the channel bandwidth they need, we can't
use the same system here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio
John Williamson
2023-01-22 14:48:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 14:26:46 +0000, John Williamson
Post by John Williamson
The Americans are using frequencies in the Medium Wave band for combined
analogue and Digital Broadcasting. It needs 15kHz channel separation,
though, so here, t would need the frequency allocation scheme to be changed.
What if you removed the analogue component. What would the channel
separation need to be then? Would this be the same thing as DRM?
Covered in the Wikipedia article.
Post by Scott
Post by John Williamson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio
--
Tciao for Now!

John.
MB
2023-01-24 07:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Williamson
The Americans are using frequencies in the Medium Wave band for combined
analogue and Digital Broadcasting. It needs 15kHz channel separation,
though, so here, t would need the frequency allocation scheme to be changed.
It would need everyone going out buying new radios and fitting new ones
in their cars as well as the cost of re-engineering all the transmitter
networks.
Liz Tuddenham
2023-01-22 16:20:15 UTC
Permalink
...Who remembers those early cordless phones that used 49mhz and top end
of medium wave. The medium wave to the hand set from a dangling wire at the
phone usually meant that even standing near your TV made it fizz and
crackle.
That's not a fault with Medium Wave, that's a fault with cheap and nasty
television set designs.
--
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(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
Brian Gaff
2023-01-22 13:27:23 UTC
Permalink
Well that is as maybe, but I'd suggest that much like FM people will want to
have a free terrestrial service for at least another 10 years or so, now
whether that will include radio, I'm not sure, but there will always be
places where high speed internet will not go to.
DAB was supposed to have replaced FM, but it has not done so. Online has
not done so, and in many ways all we are doing online is time shifting
mostly. Live stuff is by its definition live, and in any emergency, you are
not going to convince me that the whole internet is going to still be
working.
Brian
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Post by Scott
On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:03:54 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
That should have said Freeview, for car sick FM but it does seem a backward
step if we are all going digital. The FM Global stations are in Stereo.
Brian
I agree this is a bit odd. Any savings for Global must be pretty
minimal. That said, my impression is that Freeview is on its way out
and the 'powers that be' would prefer to move to online distribution.
Roderick Stewart
2023-01-23 10:30:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 13:27:23 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
DAB was supposed to have replaced FM, but it has not done so. Online has
not done so, and in many ways all we are doing online is time shifting
mostly.
When I got my first Freeview disk recorder at least fifteen years ago,
all I ever used it for was time shifting. Since then I can't remember
the last time I watched anything at the same time that it was
broadcast. Within the last five years my viewing has gradually
migrated to online, and the disk recorders have actually been switched
off since 31st December 2021 so for me online has already replaced
broadcasting entirely.
Post by Brian Gaff
Live stuff is by its definition live, and in any emergency, you are
not going to convince me that the whole internet is going to still be
working.
There seem to be two definitions of the word "live" in relation to
broadcasting. There is the one that I remember from the days before it
was possible to record television signals, when it meant that events
were actually happening while you were watching them (unlike radio,
which could sometimes be from a tape or a record). Then there is the
definition that the licensing people use to explain when you are
obliged to buy a licence to watch it, where it means anything that
you watch at the same time that it being broadcast, even if it's
actually a recording, which these days means nearly everything. Thus
the use of the word "live" is an opportunity for confusion.

Rod.
Max Demian
2023-01-23 17:35:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roderick Stewart
On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 13:27:23 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
DAB was supposed to have replaced FM, but it has not done so. Online has
not done so, and in many ways all we are doing online is time shifting
mostly.
When I got my first Freeview disk recorder at least fifteen years ago,
all I ever used it for was time shifting. Since then I can't remember
the last time I watched anything at the same time that it was
broadcast. Within the last five years my viewing has gradually
migrated to online, and the disk recorders have actually been switched
off since 31st December 2021 so for me online has already replaced
broadcasting entirely.
How do you avoid ads on commercial stations?
--
Max Demian
Brian Gaff
2023-01-23 18:17:09 UTC
Permalink
Well to be honest, I just ignore them. The brain after a while just blanks
them out. I'm still getting used to the new age of shortening the parts
between ads near the end of the show though. Do they really think we have
not noticed this tactic?

On radio the ads on the commercial stations are far more annoying for some
reason, but there really is no commercial station I would listen to for a
long period in any case. When Smooth first started they carried live or
recorded live shows by well known artists, but since they got bought out
they are the same old playlist with interruptions as everyone else except in
rush ours and end of the working day traffic. Also on most commercial
stations they rely on other services to generate traffic and occasionally
have a cctv feed that they watch.

I can recall that TV wise it was worth having several vcrs and you could be
watching Xmas shows till Easter, but now what have we got, sod all. There
was nothing that I wanted to see at all at Christmas. I spent a lot of the
time on the Amazon echo playing new and old albums which was probably more
enjoyable than thither this or that Xmas special which was not special other
than the theme in some way.
Probably recorded in June. I once went to A Des O'Conner show at Teddington
when it was still a studio, and watching his Christmas show in September.
Brian
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Post by Max Demian
Post by Roderick Stewart
On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 13:27:23 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
DAB was supposed to have replaced FM, but it has not done so. Online has
not done so, and in many ways all we are doing online is time shifting
mostly.
When I got my first Freeview disk recorder at least fifteen years ago,
all I ever used it for was time shifting. Since then I can't remember
the last time I watched anything at the same time that it was
broadcast. Within the last five years my viewing has gradually
migrated to online, and the disk recorders have actually been switched
off since 31st December 2021 so for me online has already replaced
broadcasting entirely.
How do you avoid ads on commercial stations?
--
Max Demian
MB
2023-01-24 08:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Demian
How do you avoid ads on commercial stations?
Switch to a non-commercial channel or select the MP3 player in the car /
radio.

Brian Gaff
2023-01-23 18:06:32 UTC
Permalink
I guess the last point is valid, but I remember the days of real news that
was breaking as you watched. I would like to see that again. We have far
more capable tools now for doing this, yet as you say a lot of live is at
best delayed, at worst just another recording. Apart from Sport, which has
never floated my boat, what else is there?
With all the channels we now have, mostly regurgitating stuff which has
been on before, how about some really live happenings other than people
sleeping in the House of Commons?
Brian
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Post by Roderick Stewart
On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 13:27:23 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
DAB was supposed to have replaced FM, but it has not done so. Online has
not done so, and in many ways all we are doing online is time shifting
mostly.
When I got my first Freeview disk recorder at least fifteen years ago,
all I ever used it for was time shifting. Since then I can't remember
the last time I watched anything at the same time that it was
broadcast. Within the last five years my viewing has gradually
migrated to online, and the disk recorders have actually been switched
off since 31st December 2021 so for me online has already replaced
broadcasting entirely.
Post by Brian Gaff
Live stuff is by its definition live, and in any emergency, you are
not going to convince me that the whole internet is going to still be
working.
There seem to be two definitions of the word "live" in relation to
broadcasting. There is the one that I remember from the days before it
was possible to record television signals, when it meant that events
were actually happening while you were watching them (unlike radio,
which could sometimes be from a tape or a record). Then there is the
definition that the licensing people use to explain when you are
obliged to buy a licence to watch it, where it means anything that
you watch at the same time that it being broadcast, even if it's
actually a recording, which these days means nearly everything. Thus
the use of the word "live" is an opportunity for confusion.
Rod.
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