Poor people in the Borders!

[MB]

The SNP want to inflict STV on them!


"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more Tory
voters

The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question
from the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

[Scott]

Post by MB
The SNP want to inflict STV on them!
"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more Tory
voters
The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question
from the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

Can this be done? As far as I can see, all the transmitters are in
England. They could build a new transmitter, I suppose, but what
would stop the lieges using their existing aerials to receive the
present service? Could they make the English transmitters more
directional (at the cost of the Scottish Government I hope) and could
this be overcome by a bigger aerial?

[Mark Carver]

Post by Scott

Post by MB
The SNP want to inflict STV on them!
"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more Tory
voters
The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question
from the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

Can this be done? As far as I can see, all the transmitters are in
England. They could build a new transmitter, I suppose, but what
would stop the lieges using their existing aerials to receive the
present service? Could they make the English transmitters more
directional (at the cost of the Scottish Government I hope) and could
this be overcome by a bigger aerial?

Caldbeck carries 11 Muxes, England PSB x 3, Scotland PSB x 3, COM 4, 5
and 6 (plus the Carlisle local mux on two separate frequencies)

BBC Scottish channels are carried on the relevant Scottish PSB 1 and 3
channels. Border Scotland is carried on PSB 2, and Granada HD on PSB 3

Border TV (or what's left of it) is operated by ITV Ltd. Ofcom could
remove the licence that covers Scotland and hand it to STV.
Or ITV might end up buying STV at some point anyway.

STV won't want to have the Border region bolted on.  Sparsely populated,
and therefore expensive to provide news coverage to, and no significant
ad revenue to be gained.

A more realistic hope is ITV buy STV, and carry on with the present
Border Scotland sub region as an opt out from Glasgow, (rather than
Newcastle)

[Scott]

On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 12:06:57 +0000, Mark Carver

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by MB
The SNP want to inflict STV on them!
"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more Tory
voters
The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question
from the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

Can this be done? As far as I can see, all the transmitters are in
England. They could build a new transmitter, I suppose, but what
would stop the lieges using their existing aerials to receive the
present service? Could they make the English transmitters more
directional (at the cost of the Scottish Government I hope) and could
this be overcome by a bigger aerial?

Caldbeck carries 11 Muxes, England PSB x 3, Scotland PSB x 3, COM 4, 5
and 6 (plus the Carlisle local mux on two separate frequencies)
BBC Scottish channels are carried on the relevant Scottish PSB 1 and 3
channels. Border Scotland is carried on PSB 2, and Granada HD on PSB 3
Border TV (or what's left of it) is operated by ITV Ltd. Ofcom could
remove the licence that covers Scotland and hand it to STV.
Or ITV might end up buying STV at some point anyway.
STV won't want to have the Border region bolted on.  Sparsely populated,
and therefore expensive to provide news coverage to, and no significant
ad revenue to be gained.
A more realistic hope is ITV buy STV, and carry on with the present
Border Scotland sub region as an opt out from Glasgow, (rather than
Newcastle)

The SNP won't like that either :-)

[NY]

Post by Mark Carver
A more realistic hope is ITV buy STV, and carry on with the present
Border Scotland sub region as an opt out from Glasgow, (rather than
Newcastle)

I never understood why ITV (and its regions) split into three companies:
ITV (for England and Wales). STV (for Scotland) and UTV (for Northern
Ireland).

The whole status of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is a mess:
either they should be completely independent of England or they should
be completely unified as the UK, not half-and-half.

[Tweed]

Post by NY

Post by Mark Carver
A more realistic hope is ITV buy STV, and carry on with the present
Border Scotland sub region as an opt out from Glasgow, (rather than
Newcastle)

ITV (for England and Wales). STV (for Scotland) and UTV (for Northern
Ireland).
either they should be completely independent of England or they should
be completely unified as the UK, not half-and-half.

Why?

[Scott]

Post by NY

Post by Mark Carver
A more realistic hope is ITV buy STV, and carry on with the present
Border Scotland sub region as an opt out from Glasgow, (rather than
Newcastle)

ITV (for England and Wales). STV (for Scotland) and UTV (for Northern
Ireland).

It didn't split. On the contrary, different franchises in England and
Wales merged to form ITV as it is today.

In Scotland, Grampian and STV (effectively) merged to form STV.

UTV is owned by ITV plc, who decided to retain the old name.

Post by NY
either they should be completely independent of England or they should
be completely unified as the UK, not half-and-half.

No comment.

[Mark Carver]

Post by NY

Post by Mark Carver
A more realistic hope is ITV buy STV, and carry on with the present
Border Scotland sub region as an opt out from Glasgow, (rather than
Newcastle)

I never understood why ITV (and its regions) split into three
companies: ITV (for England and Wales). STV (for Scotland) and UTV
(for Northern Ireland).
either they should be completely independent of England or they should
be completely unified as the UK, not half-and-half.

Because the ITA didn't (with the obvious exception of Northern Ireland)
create any 'nation-regions'. The regions were based upon optimum VHF
transmitter coverage, (max coverage from minimum sites) so odd ball
regions such as Border ended up being created

Remember also Wales was originally served by two ITV companies (TWW for
South Wales, and Teledu Cymru  for west and north wales)

[charles]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by NY

Post by Mark Carver
A more realistic hope is ITV buy STV, and carry on with the present
Border Scotland sub region as an opt out from Glasgow, (rather than
Newcastle)

I never understood why ITV (and its regions) split into three
companies: ITV (for England and Wales). STV (for Scotland) and UTV
(for Northern Ireland).
either they should be completely independent of England or they should
be completely unified as the UK, not half-and-half.

Because the ITA didn't (with the obvious exception of Northern Ireland)
create any 'nation-regions'. The regions were based upon optimum VHF
transmitter coverage, (max coverage from minimum sites) so odd ball
regions such as Border ended up being created
Remember also Wales was originally served by two ITV companies (TWW for
South Wales, and Teledu Cymru for west and north wales)if

and, if I rememeber correctly, TWW was "Wales & West (of England)". It
wasn't exclusively Welsh.

[Mark Carver]

Post by charles

Post by Mark Carver

Post by NY

Post by Mark Carver
A more realistic hope is ITV buy STV, and carry on with the present
Border Scotland sub region as an opt out from Glasgow, (rather than
Newcastle)

I never understood why ITV (and its regions) split into three
companies: ITV (for England and Wales). STV (for Scotland) and UTV
(for Northern Ireland).
either they should be completely independent of England or they should
be completely unified as the UK, not half-and-half.

Because the ITA didn't (with the obvious exception of Northern Ireland)
create any 'nation-regions'. The regions were based upon optimum VHF
transmitter coverage, (max coverage from minimum sites) so odd ball
regions such as Border ended up being created
Remember also Wales was originally served by two ITV companies (TWW for
South Wales, and Teledu Cymru for west and north wales)if

and, if I rememeber correctly, TWW was "Wales & West (of England)". It
wasn't exclusively Welsh.

No, because St Hilary (and Wenvoe) were the best optimum sites to serve
South Wales, and the West of England, so another odd-ball region was
created, namely 'Wales and West'
Although later TWW was given a second Band III allocation to provide
separate programmes from St H, it had to be the same company or else
there'd have been a kerfuffle regarding advertising. Carried on into the
UHF days with HTV and Wenvoe/Mendip of course.

Which brings us full circle with the idea that Caldbeck could end
transmitting two competing 'ITV' companies, STV and ITV, which is why I
think nothing will happen regarding the SNP's wishes.

[MB]

Post by Mark Carver
Which brings us full circle with the idea that Caldbeck could end
transmitting two competing 'ITV' companies, STV and ITV, which is why I
think nothing will happen regarding the SNP's wishes.

Politician have little understanding of technicalities. Years ago, a
local politican wanted the local transmitters to carry Grampian rather
than STV. He seemed to think it was just a matter of switching over!

Though perhaps understandable because STV did not seem to realise they
covered quite a lot of the West coast and Highlands - their weather
forecast was always the Central Scotland idea of the "West of Scotland"
i.e. Glasgow and perhaps Ayrshire.

[MB]

Post by charles
and, if I rememeber correctly, TWW was "Wales & West (of England)". It
wasn't exclusively Welsh.

And most people in North Wales watched Granada!

When I was at university, a friend tried to find out how many watched
(and listened to) the Welsh services. The BBC claimed to have no
figures which was obviously a lie.

So he did some research of his own, he went into W. H. Smith and asked
how many copies of the two versions of Radio Times were sold.
Unsurprisingly, most were the North of England issue!

[Mark Carver]

Post by MB

Post by charles
and, if I rememeber correctly, TWW was "Wales & West (of England)". It
wasn't exclusively Welsh.

And most people in North Wales watched Granada!

I suspect they still do. Though oddly since Granada effectively
swallowed up HTV, Granada News no longer carries any N Wales news !

[charles]

Post by MB

Post by charles
and, if I rememeber correctly, TWW was "Wales & West (of England)". It
wasn't exclusively Welsh.

And most people in North Wales watched Granada!
When I was at university, a friend tried to find out how many watched
(and listened to) the Welsh services. The BBC claimed to have no
figures which was obviously a lie.
So he did some research of his own, he went into W. H. Smith and asked
how many copies of the two versions of Radio Times were sold.
Unsurprisingly, most were the North of England issue!

I remeber visiting somewhere on Anglesey where the Welsh MP said that
nobody could get Welsh tv. Actually, the whole village was perfectly served
by Llandonna, but everybody had large aerials pointing at Winter Hill.

[Liz Tuddenham]

Post by MB

Post by charles
and, if I rememeber correctly, TWW was "Wales & West (of England)". It
wasn't exclusively Welsh.

And most people in North Wales watched Granada!
When I was at university, a friend tried to find out how many watched
(and listened to) the Welsh services. The BBC claimed to have no
figures which was obviously a lie.

Carrying on the tradition:

In the 1960s the BBC ran a survey to find out whether listeners
preferred 'pop' music or 'light' (orchestral) music. They refused to
release the results but anounced that the preference was for pop music,
so records of light music were to be phased out. This was done so
successfully that hardly anyone nowadays can name a piece of light
music, even though hundreds of different tunes were written and
broadcast in the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s; they were massively popular.

This led to the disbanding of several light orchestras and the
consequent cost saving, not just for the BBC but for EMI and other
record companies.

Recently someone discovered the actual survey data; it showed that
listeners had preferred light music over pop by an overwhelming
majority.

[[e-mail]]

Post by MB

Post by charles
and, if I rememeber correctly, TWW was "Wales & West (of England)". It
wasn't exclusively Welsh.

And most people in North Wales watched Granada!

In the coastal areas of N Wales there are a few relays transmitters which seem to be more political than necessary. Very few aerials point at them. Wherever possible people seem to prefer Winter Hill.

[MB]

Post by ***@aol.com
In the coastal areas of N Wales there are a few relays transmitters which seem to be more political than necessary. Very few aerials point at them. Wherever possible people seem to prefer Winter Hill.

Charles will know better but I think the criterion was 200 viewers, some
relays are there to provide a feed to another relay so there could be
one in the hills where people cannot receive Winter Hill that needed a feed.

The target figure also does not include temporary viewers during the
holiday period.

There were certainly political factors, it was usually said that Pontop
Pike Band I was prioritised because the PMG's constituency was in the area.

There were various claims made about why Kinlochleven had a Band I relay
with only a small number of viewers.

But people always love conspiracy theories.

[charles]

Post by MB

Post by ***@aol.com
In the coastal areas of N Wales there are a few relays transmitters
which seem to be more political than necessary. Very few aerials point
at them. Wherever possible people seem to prefer Winter Hill.

Charles will know better but I think the criterion was 200 viewers, some
relays are there to provide a feed to another relay so there could be
one in the hills where people cannot receive Winter Hill that needed a feed.
The target figure also does not include temporary viewers during the
holiday period.
There were certainly political factors, it was usually said that Pontop
Pike Band I was prioritised because the PMG's constituency was in the area.
There were various claims made about why Kinlochleven had a Band I relay
with only a small number of viewers.

My suspicion was that it was on a county boundary - both counties claimed
it, so mysteriously the population doubled. But I did come across a very
small village in Wales which had a relay despite its small size - the DG at
the time had a holiday cottage there; could there have been a connection?

Post by MB
But people always love conspiracy theories.

[Brian Gaff]

You cannot really please everyone, and to have extra channels with both
viewpoints would perhaps exclude some of the dross channels who regurgitate
the same rubbish over and over, or maybe it will all be done online as its
there if you want it now. Have you noticed that in the shops its hard not to
buy a TV with an internet connection?
Brian
--
--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Post by MB
The SNP want to inflict STV on them!
"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more Tory
voters
The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question from
the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

[Scott]

Post by MB
The SNP want to inflict STV on them!
"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more Tory
voters
The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question
from the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

I watched part of the SNP leadership debate last night. I make no
political comment, but others are free to do so should they wish.

However, I noticed that the presenter said the programme was being
broadcast on STV and ITV Border. I assume this meant the entire
Border region, including viewers in England? Political decision on
the part of STV perhaps with a bit of negotiation with ITV.

[Mark Carver]

Post by Scott

Post by MB
The SNP want to inflict STV on them!
"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more Tory
voters
The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question
from the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

I watched part of the SNP leadership debate last night. I make no
political comment, but others are free to do so should they wish.
However, I noticed that the presenter said the programme was being
broadcast on STV and ITV Border. I assume this meant the entire
Border region, including viewers in England?

I wouldn't have thought so. Border have had a Scottish sub-opt for about
25 years, primarily to allow them to carry STV programmes of 'national'
interest.

Border Scotland is carried by Selkirk and all its relays, and on the
previously mentioned PSB 2 Scotland Mux from Caldbeck (plus all Caldbeck
relays that are in Scotland)

[Scott]

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 13:11:02 +0000, Mark Carver

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by MB
The SNP want to inflict STV on them!
"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more Tory
voters
The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question
from the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

I watched part of the SNP leadership debate last night. I make no
political comment, but others are free to do so should they wish.
However, I noticed that the presenter said the programme was being
broadcast on STV and ITV Border. I assume this meant the entire
Border region, including viewers in England?

I wouldn't have thought so. Border have had a Scottish sub-opt for about
25 years, primarily to allow them to carry STV programmes of 'national'
interest.
Border Scotland is carried by Selkirk and all its relays, and on the
previously mentioned PSB 2 Scotland Mux from Caldbeck (plus all Caldbeck
relays that are in Scotland)

Does this mean a transfer of the Scottish Borders region to STV would
be technically feasible, if not commercially beneficially? So to a
degree the politicians could be right?

[charles]

Post by Scott
On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 13:11:02 +0000, Mark Carver

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by MB
The SNP want to inflict STV on them!
"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more
Tory voters
The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question
from the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

I watched part of the SNP leadership debate last night. I make no
political comment, but others are free to do so should they wish.
However, I noticed that the presenter said the programme was being
broadcast on STV and ITV Border. I assume this meant the entire
Border region, including viewers in England?

I wouldn't have thought so. Border have had a Scottish sub-opt for about
25 years, primarily to allow them to carry STV programmes of 'national'
interest.
Border Scotland is carried by Selkirk and all its relays, and on the
previously mentioned PSB 2 Scotland Mux from Caldbeck (plus all Caldbeck
relays that are in Scotland)

Does this mean a transfer of the Scottish Borders region to STV would be
technically feasible, if not commercially beneficially? So to a degree
the politicians could be right?

There's a small bit served by Chatton, too.

[Mark Carver]

Post by Scott
On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 13:11:02 +0000, Mark Carver

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by MB
The SNP want to inflict STV on them!
"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more Tory
voters
The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question
from the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

I watched part of the SNP leadership debate last night. I make no
political comment, but others are free to do so should they wish.
However, I noticed that the presenter said the programme was being
broadcast on STV and ITV Border. I assume this meant the entire
Border region, including viewers in England?

I wouldn't have thought so. Border have had a Scottish sub-opt for about
25 years, primarily to allow them to carry STV programmes of 'national'
interest.
Border Scotland is carried by Selkirk and all its relays, and on the
previously mentioned PSB 2 Scotland Mux from Caldbeck (plus all Caldbeck
relays that are in Scotland)

Does this mean a transfer of the Scottish Borders region to STV would
be technically feasible, if not commercially beneficially? So to a
degree the politicians could be right?

It's technically very feasible. Could be done overnight. I've already
outlined the commercial issues however

[Scott]

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 19:28:31 +0000, Mark Carver

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott
On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 13:11:02 +0000, Mark Carver

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Scott

Post by MB
The SNP want to inflict STV on them!
"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more Tory
voters
The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question
from the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

I watched part of the SNP leadership debate last night. I make no
political comment, but others are free to do so should they wish.
However, I noticed that the presenter said the programme was being
broadcast on STV and ITV Border. I assume this meant the entire
Border region, including viewers in England?

I wouldn't have thought so. Border have had a Scottish sub-opt for about
25 years, primarily to allow them to carry STV programmes of 'national'
interest.
Border Scotland is carried by Selkirk and all its relays, and on the
previously mentioned PSB 2 Scotland Mux from Caldbeck (plus all Caldbeck
relays that are in Scotland)

Does this mean a transfer of the Scottish Borders region to STV would
be technically feasible, if not commercially beneficially? So to a
degree the politicians could be right?

It's technically very feasible. Could be done overnight. I've already
outlined the commercial issues however

Yes, indeed. Thanks. Going back to the start, could you let Ash
Regan know? .

[Chris Youlden]

Post by Scott
However, I noticed that the presenter said the programme was being
broadcast on STV and ITV Border. I assume this meant the entire
Border region, including viewers in England? Political decision on
the part of STV perhaps with a bit of negotiation with ITV.

Reminds me somewhat of Welsh Party Political Broadcasts on BBC English
transmitters way back. Especially nicking Wenvoe Ch 5 for the purpose.
There was some sense, admittedly, before Ch 13 commenced, but it still
continued even after UHF transmitters were on air, provoking complaints
from English viewers.

Some programmes were even broadcast on CP, officially because there were
a lot of Welsh people living in London. It made me wonder whether they
were also transmitted in the South of Spain, or even Patagonia.

[Mark Carver]

Post by Chris Youlden

Post by Scott
However, I noticed that the presenter said the programme was being
broadcast on STV and  ITV Border.  I assume this meant the entire
Border region, including viewers in England?  Political decision on
the part of STV perhaps with a bit of negotiation with ITV.

Reminds me somewhat of Welsh Party Political Broadcasts on BBC English
transmitters way back. Especially nicking Wenvoe Ch 5 for the purpose.
There was some sense, admittedly, before Ch 13 commenced, but it still
continued even after UHF transmitters were on air, provoking
complaints from English viewers.
Some programmes were even broadcast on CP, officially because there
were a lot of Welsh people living in London. It made me wonder whether
they were also transmitted in the South of Spain, or even Patagonia.

I do remember the lunchtime BBC Wales programmes on CP/Rowridge/Hannington.

The London announcer would say....'the following programme is on English
transmitters only', there'd be a splat, and up would pop the BBC Cymru
Wales globe, and a Welsh announcer's voice. Because of rights issues
those programmes were not shown in Wales, so I think in Wales they were
treated to the test card ?

[charles]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Chris Youlden

Post by Scott
However, I noticed that the presenter said the programme was being
broadcast on STV and ITV Border. I assume this meant the entire
Border region, including viewers in England? Political decision on
the part of STV perhaps with a bit of negotiation with ITV.

Reminds me somewhat of Welsh Party Political Broadcasts on BBC English
transmitters way back. Especially nicking Wenvoe Ch 5 for the purpose.
There was some sense, admittedly, before Ch 13 commenced, but it still
continued even after UHF transmitters were on air, provoking
complaints from English viewers.
Some programmes were even broadcast on CP, officially because there
were a lot of Welsh people living in London. It made me wonder whether
they were also transmitted in the South of Spain, or even Patagonia.

I do remember the lunchtime BBC Wales programmes on
CP/Rowridge/Hannington.
The London announcer would say....'the following programme is on English
transmitters only', there'd be a splat, and up would pop the BBC Cymru
Wales globe, and a Welsh announcer's voice. Because of rights issues
those programmes were not shown in Wales, so I think in Wales they were
treated to the test card ?

I remember them in the 405 days. They were shown in Wales as well as Sutton
and Emley, because of their coverage in Wales and, of course, CP for the
ex-pats.

[Mark Carver]

Post by charles

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Chris Youlden

Post by Scott
However, I noticed that the presenter said the programme was being
broadcast on STV and ITV Border. I assume this meant the entire
Border region, including viewers in England? Political decision on
the part of STV perhaps with a bit of negotiation with ITV.

Reminds me somewhat of Welsh Party Political Broadcasts on BBC English
transmitters way back. Especially nicking Wenvoe Ch 5 for the purpose.
There was some sense, admittedly, before Ch 13 commenced, but it still
continued even after UHF transmitters were on air, provoking
complaints from English viewers.
Some programmes were even broadcast on CP, officially because there
were a lot of Welsh people living in London. It made me wonder whether
they were also transmitted in the South of Spain, or even Patagonia.

I do remember the lunchtime BBC Wales programmes on
CP/Rowridge/Hannington.
The London announcer would say....'the following programme is on English
transmitters only', there'd be a splat, and up would pop the BBC Cymru
Wales globe, and a Welsh announcer's voice. Because of rights issues
those programmes were not shown in Wales, so I think in Wales they were
treated to the test card ?

I remember them in the 405 days. They were shown in Wales as well as Sutton
and Emley, because of their coverage in Wales and, of course, CP for the
ex-pats.

You mean Holme Moss, rather than Emley of course ? ;-)

[charles]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by charles

Post by Mark Carver

Post by Chris Youlden

Post by Scott
However, I noticed that the presenter said the programme was being
broadcast on STV and ITV Border. I assume this meant the entire
Border region, including viewers in England? Political decision on
the part of STV perhaps with a bit of negotiation with ITV.

Reminds me somewhat of Welsh Party Political Broadcasts on BBC
English transmitters way back. Especially nicking Wenvoe Ch 5 for the
purpose. There was some sense, admittedly, before Ch 13 commenced,
but it still continued even after UHF transmitters were on air,
provoking complaints from English viewers.
Some programmes were even broadcast on CP, officially because there
were a lot of Welsh people living in London. It made me wonder
whether they were also transmitted in the South of Spain, or even
Patagonia.

I do remember the lunchtime BBC Wales programmes on
CP/Rowridge/Hannington. The London announcer would say....'the
following programme is on English transmitters only', there'd be a
splat, and up would pop the BBC Cymru Wales globe, and a Welsh
announcer's voice. Because of rights issues those programmes were not
shown in Wales, so I think in Wales they were treated to the test card
?

I remember them in the 405 days. They were shown in Wales as well as
Sutton and Emley, because of their coverage in Wales and, of course, CP
for the ex-pats.

You mean Holme Moss, rather than Emley of course ? ;-)

Of course.

[MB]

Post by charles
I remember them in the 405 days. They were shown in Wales as well as Sutton
and Emley, because of their coverage in Wales and, of course, CP for the
ex-pats.

After the move to UHF, they used to put a temporary OB link from
Manchester to Moel y Parc, just so BBC2 viewers in North Wales would not
miss the five minute Plaid Cymru Party Electoral / Political Broadcast!

[MB]

Post by MB
After the move to UHF, they used to put a temporary OB link from
Manchester to Moel y Parc, just so BBC2 viewers in North Wales would not
miss the five minute Plaid Cymru Party Electoral / Political Broadcast!

Nowadays they always announce after a PEB or PPB that they can be
watched on iPlayer. Have any figures ever been published of how many
actually watch them on iPlayer?

[Mark Carver]

Post by MB

Post by charles
I remember them in the 405 days. They were shown in Wales as well as Sutton
and Emley, because of their coverage in Wales and, of course, CP for the
ex-pats.

After the move to UHF, they used to put a temporary OB link from
Manchester to Moel y Parc, just so BBC2 viewers in North Wales would
not miss the five minute Plaid Cymru Party Electoral / Political
Broadcast!

I think BBC 2  M-y-P was RBL Winter Hill for quite some time in the 70s
? Wasn't there also a RBL receiver at Gt Orme Head that then gave
Llandonna an SHF feed of BBC 2 Winter Hill ?

[MB]

Post by Mark Carver
I think BBC 2  M-y-P was RBL Winter Hill for quite some time in the 70s
? Wasn't there also a RBL receiver at Gt Orme Head that then gave
Llandonna an SHF feed of BBC 2 Winter Hill ?

For the Investiture they put a 200 watt TWT at Great Orme and could feed
direct to Winter Hill if necessary - it was very much belt and braces
and a piece of string in case the nationalists sabotaged anything!

Though the only sabotage was an Eagle Tower that someone guyed to one of
the OB Land Rovers which drove off pulling it over.

What amused me most about the PPB/PEB OB was that they put a switch in
the input to the BBC2 transmitter for it. The man from OBs was going to
come back next day to remove the switch because there was a slight break
as the U-Link was put back.

[Mark Carver]

Post by MB

Post by Mark Carver
I think BBC 2  M-y-P was RBL Winter Hill for quite some time in the 70s
? Wasn't there also a RBL receiver at Gt Orme Head that then gave
Llandonna an SHF feed of BBC 2 Winter Hill ?

For the Investiture they put a 200 watt TWT at Great Orme and could
feed direct to Winter Hill if necessary - it was very much belt and
braces and a piece of string in case the nationalists sabotaged anything!
Though the only sabotage was an Eagle Tower that someone guyed to one
of the OB Land Rovers which drove off pulling it over.
What amused me most about the PPB/PEB OB was that they put a switch in
the input to the BBC2 transmitter for it.  The man from OBs was going
to come back next day to remove the switch because there was a slight
break as the U-Link was put back.

I can remember in 1980, and the regional news being transferred to BBC 2
for the duration of the Olympics (see, this 'it must be on BBC 1'
culture involving sport is far from a new thing)

Anyway, BBC Southampton wasn't equipped to routinely opt out on BBC 2,
just before and just after the news, both BBC 1 and 2 would go to 'non
sync' black (with RBS switching thrashing about) where someone was
clearly re-patching the Tx chains.

Class !

[Scott]

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:19:22 +0000, Mark Carver

Post by Mark Carver

Post by MB

Post by Mark Carver
I think BBC 2  M-y-P was RBL Winter Hill for quite some time in the 70s
? Wasn't there also a RBL receiver at Gt Orme Head that then gave
Llandonna an SHF feed of BBC 2 Winter Hill ?

For the Investiture they put a 200 watt TWT at Great Orme and could
feed direct to Winter Hill if necessary - it was very much belt and
braces and a piece of string in case the nationalists sabotaged anything!
Though the only sabotage was an Eagle Tower that someone guyed to one
of the OB Land Rovers which drove off pulling it over.
What amused me most about the PPB/PEB OB was that they put a switch in
the input to the BBC2 transmitter for it.  The man from OBs was going
to come back next day to remove the switch because there was a slight
break as the U-Link was put back.

I can remember in 1980, and the regional news being transferred to BBC 2
for the duration of the Olympics (see, this 'it must be on BBC 1'
culture involving sport is far from a new thing)
Anyway, BBC Southampton wasn't equipped to routinely opt out on BBC 2,
just before and just after the news, both BBC 1 and 2 would go to 'non
sync' black (with RBS switching thrashing about) where someone was
clearly re-patching the Tx chains.
Class !

I assume this cannot now happen. Here at least, there is no BBC Two
Scotland so I assume it is no longer possible for Reporting Scotland
to be transferred to BBC Two during Wimbledon, the World Cup, the
Olympic Games or any other sporting event.

[Mark Carver]

Post by Scott
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:19:22 +0000, Mark Carver

Post by Mark Carver

Post by MB

Post by Mark Carver
I think BBC 2  M-y-P was RBL Winter Hill for quite some time in the 70s
? Wasn't there also a RBL receiver at Gt Orme Head that then gave
Llandonna an SHF feed of BBC 2 Winter Hill ?

For the Investiture they put a 200 watt TWT at Great Orme and could
feed direct to Winter Hill if necessary - it was very much belt and
braces and a piece of string in case the nationalists sabotaged anything!
Though the only sabotage was an Eagle Tower that someone guyed to one
of the OB Land Rovers which drove off pulling it over.
What amused me most about the PPB/PEB OB was that they put a switch in
the input to the BBC2 transmitter for it.  The man from OBs was going
to come back next day to remove the switch because there was a slight
break as the U-Link was put back.

I can remember in 1980, and the regional news being transferred to BBC 2
for the duration of the Olympics (see, this 'it must be on BBC 1'
culture involving sport is far from a new thing)
Anyway, BBC Southampton wasn't equipped to routinely opt out on BBC 2,
just before and just after the news, both BBC 1 and 2 would go to 'non
sync' black (with RBS switching thrashing about) where someone was
clearly re-patching the Tx chains.
Class !

I assume this cannot now happen. Here at least, there is no BBC Two
Scotland so I assume it is no longer possible for Reporting Scotland
to be transferred to BBC Two during Wimbledon, the World Cup, the
Olympic Games or any other sporting event.

All they did in Scotland, was to reassign  the pres suite and tx chain
that carried BBC 2 to carry the BBC Scotland Channel instead, so they
can always bounce Reporting Scotland to the BBC Scotland Channel if they
are so inclined.

[MB]

Post by Mark Carver
All they did in Scotland, was to reassign  the pres suite and tx chain
that carried BBC 2 to carry the BBC Scotland Channel instead, so they
can always bounce Reporting Scotland to the BBC Scotland Channel if they
are so inclined.

I can't imagine them doing that! Many would think BBC Scotland was just
BBC1 Scotland and someone might ask why they cannot just have their
local news on just BBC Scotland every night.

[charles]

Post by MB

I think BBC 2 M-y-P was RBL Winter Hill for quite some time in the 70s
? Wasn't there also a RBL receiver at Gt Orme Head that then gave
Llandonna an SHF feed of BBC 2 Winter Hill ?

For the Investiture they put a 200 watt TWT at Great Orme and could feed
direct to Winter Hill if necessary - it was very much belt and braces
and a piece of string in case the nationalists sabotaged anything!

I was supervising in "Standards Converters" on that day - we were feeding
the USA & Canada. At short notice, I was assigned a young welsh lad "So
that he wasn't involved in the network feed". I got him to write up our
programme log - in Welsh! Nobody noticed, or if they did, never asked for
an English version.

[Chris Youlden]

Post by charles

Post by Mark Carver
I do remember the lunchtime BBC Wales programmes on
CP/Rowridge/Hannington.
The London announcer would say....'the following programme is on English
transmitters only', there'd be a splat, and up would pop the BBC Cymru
Wales globe, and a Welsh announcer's voice. Because of rights issues
those programmes were not shown in Wales, so I think in Wales they were
treated to the test card ?

I remember them in the 405 days. They were shown in Wales as well as Sutton
and Emley, because of their coverage in Wales and, of course, CP for the
ex-pats.

Pobol-y-Cym was the programme at one stage, IIRC? Although not in the
405 era because Pobol only commenced in the early 70s, I think.

North Hessary Tor had to 'opt-out' of this Welsh programme, so they put
up their soot and whitewash testcard D, which was faded in and out by
altering the beam current on the slide scanner with predicable results.

[Brian Gaff]

Eh? Surely, in today's world its all only a click away.

You can lead a horse to water...etc.
Bring back the test card.
Brian
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Post by MB
The SNP want to inflict STV on them!
"Ash Regan claims that having no STV in the Borders leads to more Tory
voters
The SNP leadership candidate made the claim in response to a question from
the hustings audience in Dumfries who said that positive Scottish
Governments news did not get shown on ITV Borders."

[Smolley]

Post by Brian Gaff
Eh? Surely, in today's world its all only a click away.
You can lead a horse to water...etc.
Bring back the test card.
Brian

I used to like the test card and no advertisements as well.

[MB]

Post by Brian Gaff
Eh? Surely, in today's world its all only a click away.

I do not have satellite but I would think it is much more than 'a
click', more likely many clicks with lots of searching.