Discussion:
Producer Choice
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MB
2023-02-03 17:54:40 UTC
Permalink
The February edition of Prospero has review of a book which tells some
of the story of 'Producer Choice'.

Make an interesting read.

Page 4

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/documents/prospero/
Chris Youlden
2023-02-06 22:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by MB
The February edition of Prospero has review of a book which tells some
of the story of 'Producer Choice'.
Make an interesting read.
Page 4
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/documents/prospero/
John Malby was my oppo as Comms Planing Manager in Birmingham when I was
in Bristol. Our experience was very similar to his and I can vouch for
what he says.

One thing I suggested was to be allowed to take the department away from
BH into an industrial unit close the the M5 at Clevedon. A lot of heavy
overheads would disappear.

For some reason the suggestion was refused.
--
Chris
Dickie mint
2023-02-08 18:24:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Youlden
Post by MB
The February edition of Prospero has review of a book which tells some
of the story of 'Producer Choice'.
Make an interesting read.
Page 4
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/documents/prospero/
John Malby was my oppo as Comms Planing Manager in Birmingham when I was
in Bristol. Our experience was very similar to his and I can vouch for
what he says.
One thing I suggested was to be allowed to take the department away from
BH into an industrial unit close the the M5 at Clevedon. A lot of heavy
overheads would disappear.
For some reason the suggestion was refused.
Hi Chris,

As we supervisors rotated through Comms Planning Producer Choice was a
nighmare. Thank goodness John had it gripped! I remember he trawled
through the accounts and found one with a large fund. Oh, said our
accountant, that's the DG's Pension Fund! You can't use that.

I think that was also the time the accountant asked why we had such a
large amount of costly stores. "24/7 broadcasting?" he was told!

Richard
MB
2023-02-08 22:00:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dickie mint
I think that was also the time the accountant asked why we had such a
large amount of costly stores. "24/7 broadcasting?" he was told!
Bean counters hate stocking of spares, I have across a few places where
they charge departments, projects etc with the full new cost of
everything. So the bean counters can save money throwing things away or
selling at well below their true value.

If you return items or have them sold then the money does not go to you
of course, probably credited to the bean counters cost code.
Chris Youlden
2023-02-09 14:51:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dickie mint
Post by Chris Youlden
Post by MB
The February edition of Prospero has review of a book which tells
some of the story of 'Producer Choice'.
Make an interesting read.
Page 4
https://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/documents/prospero/
John Malby was my oppo as Comms Planing Manager in Birmingham when I
was in Bristol. Our experience was very similar to his and I can vouch
for what he says.
One thing I suggested was to be allowed to take the department away
from BH into an industrial unit close the the M5 at Clevedon. A lot of
heavy overheads would disappear.
For some reason the suggestion was refused.
Hi Chris,
As we supervisors rotated through Comms Planning Producer Choice was a
nighmare. Thank goodness John had it gripped!  I remember he trawled
through the accounts and found one with a large fund. Oh, said our
accountant, that's the DG's Pension Fund! You can't use that.
I think that was also the time the accountant asked why we had such a
large amount of costly stores. "24/7 broadcasting?" he was told!
Richard
The financial advisor we were given came to us following the big
internal revamp of the NHS. You may recall that the NHS internal market
was one enormous cock-up. I attach a link below for anyone who has
forgotten what happened.

<https://navigator.health.org.uk/theme/national-health-service-and-community-care-act-1990>

I asked the advisor about his work with the NHS reforms and he said he
was really proud over what had been achieved.

That really gave me confidence as to what was about to happen in the BBC.

One outcome was that we (Comms) were kicked out of our offices because
the Natural History Unit (one of the most highly esteemed programme
makers) wanted them so they could all be in a suite of offices
together. So they redecorated the offices, brought in new furniture, and
the NHU moved in. Some time later the NHU surrendered several offices,
packed their staff in like sardines because they had just been given the
bill for the space they were using. Producer Choice in action!
--
Chris
Brian
2023-02-10 15:37:29 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 9 Feb 2023 14:51:26 +0000, Chris Youlden <***@youlden.co.uk>
wrote:

<snip>
Post by Chris Youlden
The financial advisor we were given came to us following the big
internal revamp of the NHS. You may recall that the NHS internal market
was one enormous cock-up. I attach a link below for anyone who has
forgotten what happened.
<https://navigator.health.org.uk/theme/national-health-service-and-community-care-act-1990>
I asked the advisor about his work with the NHS reforms and he said he
was really proud over what had been achieved.
That really gave me confidence as to what was about to happen in the BBC.
The NHS seemed to us (I was Chair of London TV2 at the time) to be
about a couple of years further down the same road that management
wanted to take the BBC. Studying the press, it seemed to us that the
NHS's "internal market" - and, looking from the outside in, we were
very far from convinced that it was a true market-based system - was
having the effect of removing funds from clinical functions to pay for
the bureaucratic overheads.

One of my then colleagues was married to a senior nurse in the NHS,
and through her, we had a dialogue with one of the health service
unions, which confirmed our analysis and revealed that the health
service union believed it was detecting that some of the "reforms"
might be about to be reversed, as, indeed, they subsequently were.
This was interesting, because the Government at the time was stoutly
denying that anything of the sort was in contemplation.

BECTU therefore asked the BBC at national level to defer the
introduction of Producer Choice for 12 months in order to learn
lessons from the NHS. This request was denied out-of-hand. We
inferred from this that the advertised reason for Producer Choice -
improving internal efficiency - was unlikely to be the real one. We
simply could not see how the small army of accountants, cost managers,
internal sales and PR people, contract compliance teams etc etc etc
that would clearly be required to operate Producer Choice in the way
it had been presented to us could possibly result in more broadcasting
hours for the same revenue funding. The experience of the NHS
strongly suggested that the reverse was by far the more likely
outcome. We thought that the funding required would end up coming
from somewhere else, and that the "somewhere else" was likely to be
staff terms and conditions. In this, we were proved absolutely
correct.

In an effort to keep this vaguely on-topic for a technical newsgroup,
Producer Choice was the end of the old BBC maxim that "we make our end
as good as it can be, so all the choice as to quality rests with the
viewer/ listener". Technical quality decisions were, ultimately, made
by accountants who had to learn the hard way the lesson we had tried
in vain to teach management: that it is easy to be mediocre at low
cost, but that wit and ingenuity are required to be good for not much
more.

My own view at the time was that I was not remotely interested in
being mediocre, and if management were going to stop me trying to be
good, I would rather do something else for a living.
MB
2023-02-11 09:52:56 UTC
Permalink
It seemed to be a regular occurrence for our boss to return from
mamangement meetings talking about 'reducing layers of management', the
examples they were given were usually completely spurious. One time he
said that a girl on the checkout at the local supermarket could speak
directly to the manager if she had a problem. So a colleague asked next
time he was there, it was complete rubbish, they would not consider
speaking to the manager directly and went through a long chain of command!

I know that when we were part of the BBC, I spoke to quite senior
managers quite often and knew some of them. After privatisation I don't
remember ever having any contact with anyone particularly senior.

Any time they removed 'layers', you could just about guarantee that a
few years later they would back to the original structure!

We were once all summoned for a training session on QA and BS3939, three
large organisations were quoted as benefiting from BS3939 - they were
probably the most disorganised companies that any of us knew!
SimonM
2023-02-14 10:03:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Youlden
One outcome was that we (Comms) were kicked out of
our offices because the Natural History Unit (one
of the most highly esteemed programme makers)
wanted them  so they could all be in a suite of
offices together. So they redecorated the offices,
brought in new furniture, and the NHU moved in.
Some time later the NHU surrendered several
offices, packed their staff in like sardines
because they had just been given the bill for the
space they were using. Producer Choice in action!
One of the reasons I resigned in 1989 (there were
many, mostly personal) was that the NHU started
giving its production managers company cars.

This was after the infamous "take a metre off
every dimension" thing that happened to the new
building in Bristol, rumoured to have resulted in
insufficient space for equipment and too-small
ductwork to fit component video cabling.

The writing was on the wall, ready for 1992.
Roger Wilmut
2023-02-10 13:02:51 UTC
Permalink
One Saturday morning, during the height of 'Producer Choice' I sat in a
Bush House studio waiting to do a Russian Pop programme, which was
delayed while the producer went across the road to W.H.Smith to buy a
copy of one of the records he wanted, because it was cheaper than
getting it from the BBC Gramophone Library.
Paul Ratcliffe
2023-05-12 13:12:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Wilmut
One Saturday morning, during the height of 'Producer Choice' I sat in a
Bush House studio waiting to do a Russian Pop programme, which was
delayed while the producer went across the road to W.H.Smith to buy a
copy of one of the records he wanted, because it was cheaper than
getting it from the BBC Gramophone Library.
Yes, around about the same time someone was despatched from our place
to the same well known chain to buy a VHS of a programme, which we
then had to transfer to Beta so it could be edited in to a news
package. I made my feelings known to the producer of the day, but he
just bleated that it was cheaper than getting a line booking from
Windmill Road to do it properly. He didn't care about the picture
quality.
This of course involved real money going outside, rather than just
changing numbers on a bean-counters' 'spreadsheet'.
J. P. Gilliver
2023-05-12 23:17:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Ratcliffe
Post by Roger Wilmut
One Saturday morning, during the height of 'Producer Choice' I sat in a
Bush House studio waiting to do a Russian Pop programme, which was
delayed while the producer went across the road to W.H.Smith to buy a
copy of one of the records he wanted, because it was cheaper than
getting it from the BBC Gramophone Library.
Yes, around about the same time someone was despatched from our place
to the same well known chain to buy a VHS of a programme, which we
then had to transfer to Beta so it could be edited in to a news
package. I made my feelings known to the producer of the day, but he
just bleated that it was cheaper than getting a line booking from
Windmill Road to do it properly. He didn't care about the picture
quality.
This of course involved real money going outside, rather than just
changing numbers on a bean-counters' 'spreadsheet'.
I remember reading that, on the original "All creatures great and
small", they needed to make up a brass plaque (might have been when
Siegfried made James a partner), so put in to props department to have
one faked up - and it came back as a quote noticeably higher than to
have a real one made up locally. I forget whether they actually did the
latter, though; I could easily imagine there might have been reasons to
still use props.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

But remember, in a permissive society, it is also permissible to stay at home
and have a nice cup of tea instead. Andrew Collins, RT 2015/2/14-20
MB
2023-05-13 08:51:53 UTC
Permalink
Probably not exclusive to the BBC but I used to hear some ridiculously
high costs of processing a Local Purchase Order or even Petty Cash
Voucher. I did my bit to keep costs down when buying something costing
just a few pounds by just taking that amount in stamps out of the stamp
box.

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