OT: VoIP and CLI?

[J. P. Gilliver]

After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?

Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

[Woody]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

A few years back I set up VoIP between us, f-in-l and daughter on
Sipgate using PAP2T ATA's for f-in-l and daughter and a Grandstream SIP
phone for us. The CLI number had to be set up on line into their system.
If that was not entered then the account number showed instead

[Brian Gaff]

I'm told that it should work, but not ever tried it as my main problem with
voip was my tone dialler was never seen as the right number any more. Minute
break ups in the stream were the cause. I like to dial with a tone dialler
as it means that wherever I am and there is a land line phone I can dial
anyone on my list. Sadly now, one needs a mobile and to load all the info in
again to be able to do what you could do with a low tech dialler with
memories.
Brian
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Post by J. P. Gilliver
After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still being
sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the special
socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still works. (I. e.
does the 'phone show who's calling.)

A few years back I set up VoIP between us, f-in-l and daughter on Sipgate
using PAP2T ATA's for f-in-l and daughter and a Grandstream SIP phone for
us. The CLI number had to be set up on line into their system. If that was
not entered then the account number showed instead

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

The Virgin Media one certainly does on my Gigaset phones.

Chris

[Robin]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

I know from family BT Digital Voice does (in and out). I'd be very
surprised if any other grown-up firm doesn't: it's required of all
communication providers unless they can show it's too difficult/expensive.

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Robin

Post by J. P. Gilliver
After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

I know from family BT Digital Voice does (in and out). I'd be very
surprised if any other grown-up firm doesn't: it's required of all
communication providers unless they can show it's too
difficult/expensive.

I didn't mean do they supply _some_ sort of CLI, I meant does the
router/adaperbox/whatever convert it so that 'phones that work with the
existing CLI continue to work. But from what everyone (except the first
one) is saying, they do. Thanks all.

[Robin]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by J. P. Gilliver
After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
 Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into
the special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI
still works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

I know from family BT Digital Voice does (in and out).  I'd be very
surprised if any other grown-up firm doesn't: it's required of all
communication providers unless they can show it's too
difficult/expensive.

I didn't mean do they supply _some_ sort of CLI, I meant does the
router/adaperbox/whatever convert it so that 'phones that work with the
existing CLI continue to work. But from what everyone (except the first
one) is saying, they do. Thanks all.

It may surprise you to know that Ofcom don't allow providers to make up
their own form of CLI data so e.g. it can only be understood by one monk
in a Tibetan monastery.

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Robin

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by J. P. Gilliver
After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
 Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old"
(still being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI
plugged into the special socket on the router or whatever, can tell
us if CLI still works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

I know from family BT Digital Voice does (in and out).  I'd be very
surprised if any other grown-up firm doesn't: it's required of all
communication providers unless they can show it's too difficult/expensive.

I didn't mean do they supply _some_ sort of CLI, I meant does the
router/adaperbox/whatever convert it so that 'phones that work with
the existing CLI continue to work. But from what everyone (except the
first one) is saying, they do. Thanks all.

It may surprise you to know that Ofcom don't allow providers to make up
their own form of CLI data so e.g. it can only be understood by one
monk in a Tibetan monastery.

No, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they didn't implement it
at all. Much as I'll be slightly surprised if the new sockets output
enough oomph to ring an electromechanincal bell, and very surprised if
they support pulse dialling.

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
No, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they didn't implement it
at all. Much as I'll be slightly surprised if the new sockets output
enough oomph to ring an electromechanincal bell, and very surprised if
they support pulse dialling.

Whilst exploring if both phone sockets on my Virgin router can be
used in parallel (they can't), at one point I had a very old
wired one-piece phone connected, it had pulse dialling, and
worked OK.

Chris

[Robin]

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by J. P. Gilliver
No, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they didn't implement it
at all. Much as I'll be slightly surprised if the new sockets output
enough oomph to ring an electromechanincal bell, and very surprised if
they support pulse dialling.

Whilst exploring if both phone sockets on my Virgin router can be
used in parallel (they can't), at one point I had a very old
wired one-piece phone connected, it had pulse dialling, and
worked OK.

Yes, it's not mandated by Ofcom but is in some routers (although the
supplier may say it's not a supported service).

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Robin

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by J. P. Gilliver
No, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they didn't
implement it
at all. Much as I'll be slightly surprised if the new sockets output
enough oomph to ring an electromechanincal bell, and very surprised if
they support pulse dialling.

Whilst exploring if both phone sockets on my Virgin router can be
used in parallel (they can't), at one point I had a very old

What do you mean by "in parallel" - plugging two 'phones into them
(maybe one via an extension lead)? If they can't, what do you think is
the reason for there being two of them?

Post by Robin

Post by Chris J Dixon
wired one-piece phone connected, it had pulse dialling, and
worked OK.

Wow, that is a surprise.

Post by Robin
Yes, it's not mandated by Ofcom but is in some routers (although the
supplier may say it's not a supported service).

We shall see what PlusNet's "hub 2" does, in time, I expect!

[Mark Carver]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Robin

Post by J. P. Gilliver
No, but it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they didn't
implement it
at all. Much as I'll be slightly surprised if the new sockets output
enough oomph to ring an electromechanincal bell, and very surprised if
they support pulse dialling.

 Whilst exploring if both phone sockets on my Virgin router can be
used in parallel (they can't), at one point I had a very old

What do you mean by "in parallel" - plugging two 'phones into them
(maybe one via an extension lead)? If they can't, what do you think is
the reason for there being two of them?

Post by Robin

wired one-piece phone connected, it had pulse dialling, and
worked OK.

Wow, that is a surprise.

Post by Robin
Yes, it's not mandated by Ofcom but is in some routers (although the
supplier may say it's not a supported service).

We shall see what PlusNet's "hub 2" does, in time, I expect!

Plusnet do not, and as far as I know will not ever, support a VoIP
service. If you have a POTs service with them, this will die in 2025, or
(I think from today ?) will not be included in any new service, or
renewal of existing contract.

Folk who wish to keep their 'landline' service will be advised to move
to EE or BT

[J. P. Gilliver]

[]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by J. P. Gilliver
We shall see what PlusNet's "hub 2" does, in time, I expect!

Plusnet do not, and as far as I know will not ever, support a VoIP
service. If you have a POTs service with them, this will die in 2025,

Strange; the hub 2 has a socket (looks like a normal UK 'phone socket)
with a sticker over it that says Digital Voice Customers only.

Post by Mark Carver
or (I think from today ?) will not be included in any new service, or
renewal of existing contract.

Weird: today I've received an email that says something like when you
took out your present contract, we didn't send you certain documents:
since this is our fault, you can leave penalty-free any time. Is this a
way of shaving off old customers! (Usually, at the bi-annual haggle,
they've sounded _pleased_ at the time I've been with them.)

Post by Mark Carver
Folk who wish to keep their 'landline' service will be advised to move
to EE or BT

Hmm.

[Robin]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by J. P. Gilliver
We shall see what PlusNet's "hub 2" does, in time, I expect!

Plusnet do not, and as far as I know will not ever, support a VoIP
service. If you have a POTs service with them, this will die in 2025,

Strange; the hub 2 has a socket (looks like a normal UK 'phone socket)
with a sticker over it that says Digital Voice Customers only.

It's the same hardware as the BT hub so simpler and cheaper to use the
same sticker; and does no harm to leave open the possibility that they
might decide to offer it after all.

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Strange; the hub 2 has a socket (looks like a normal UK 'phone socket)
with a sticker over it that says Digital Voice Customers only.

I have a BT Smart Hub 2 which plugs into the first phone socket which
is a 2 way split it does not have a phone socket itself. Other phones
are Gigaset cordless. There seems to be a few different Smart Hub 2.

[Robin]

Post by Mark Carver
(I think from today ?) will not be included in any new service, or
renewal of existing contract.

Indeed. Openreach's national "Stop Sell" starts tomorrow

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Robin

Post by Mark Carver
(I think from today ?) will not be included in any new service, or
renewal of existing contract.

Indeed. Openreach's national "Stop Sell" starts tomorrow

Well, since I'd had this email ("we forgot to send you some documents
when you started your present contract - because this was our error, you
can quit penalty-free"), I rang up PlusNet this morning, to ask about
things, including keeping my landline (at least the number). He seemed
to say PN aren't going to do landlines beyond a point (at all, not even
VoIP), and I'd have to switch to BT - which would have cost me 38 a
month, rather than the 26 I'm paying now (for broadband - at what I
think is about 30 speed - and anytime calls).

The upshot is that I managed to get my contract - which would have ended
in February ('24) - renewed for 2 years, i. e. to September '25 -
keeping exactly what I have now, i. e. broadband and anytime (up to an
hour) calls. (I think there's a limit on calling mobiles, but it was in
the thousands of hours a month, so I'm not bothered!) Not even mention
of having to go to VoIP, though provided I can use my same 'phones, I'm
not bothered about that, as long as I keep the number.

So - we'll see what happens! I did say something like "when you mess up
the first bill, I hope there won't be problems getting it sorted"
(because they've I think _always_ messed it up after any change, either
new contract or the annual CPI+3.9%), but he said they wouldn't as it's
the same contract. We'll see! (And we'll see what happens about the end
of POTS as well.)

Oh - he did ask if I'd considered switching to mobile; "as an existing
broadband customer", they could do me a good deal - 8 pounds a month. I
don't think he was expecting me to point out that my PAYG mobile still
has some of the tenner I put on it when I bought it (last year), still
left.

[Mark Carver]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
The upshot is that I managed to get my contract - which would have
ended in February ('24) - renewed for 2 years, i. e. to September '25
- keeping exactly what I have now, i. e. broadband and anytime (up to
an hour) calls. (I think there's a limit on calling mobiles, but it
was in the thousands of hours a month, so I'm not bothered!) Not even
mention of having to go to VoIP, though provided I can use my same
'phones, I'm not bothered about that, as long as I keep the number.

That should ensure you retain your 'copper POTs' service until Sept
2025.  All copper POTs services will cease in Dec 2025, so that'll take
as far up to the death day as possible really.

Hopefully before then the industry will have sorted out a scheme, where
you can with ease, and without killing your broadband service, migrate
your phone number to a proper full fat VoIP service provider (and so
decouple for ever your broadband and phone supplier)

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/09/ofcom-uk-urges-industry-progress-on-phone-number-porting.html

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <***@mid.individual.net> at Tue, 5 Sep 2023
15:36:57, Mark Carver <***@invalid.invalid> writes
[]

Post by Mark Carver
That should ensure you retain your 'copper POTs' service until Sept

Oh - that'd be nice; I was under the impression that some providers are
stopping it early. (Maybe only at contract renewals.)

Post by Mark Carver
2025.  All copper POTs services will cease in Dec 2025, so that'll take

Useful date, thanks.

Post by Mark Carver
as far up to the death day as possible really.
Hopefully before then the industry will have sorted out a scheme, where
you can with ease, and without killing your broadband service, migrate
your phone number to a proper full fat VoIP service provider (and so
decouple for ever your broadband and phone supplier)

Can't at the moment think of anything extra I'd want from a separate
VoIP supplier, so would be happy to remain coupled. (Obviously I'll have
to decouple if PlusNet still aren't doing VoIP by then; seems a bit odd
them not doing, as - as far as I can see - they're sending out
hub/routers with the necessary hardware in them.) Well, I suppose it'd
be nice to block phishing calls, but they could block most of them now,
but obviously aren't interested in them. (How? By detecting spoofed CLI.
When I get a call from "Visa fraud department" or similar, I dial 1471
and it tells me the [faked] number that called; I then dial 1572, 1 to
block it, and it says "last call, from an unknown number, cannot be
blocked". So if 1471 detects a CLI and 1572, 1 doesn't, they should be
able to detect it. [Anyone withholding their CLI for a valid reason, it
shouldn't show up under 1471 either.] But they're not interested.)

Post by Mark Carver
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/09/ofcom-uk-urges-industry-pr
ogress-on-phone-number-porting.html

Ah, OfCom, that famous toothless chocolate teapot. Spend much of their
time changing the law by "Statutory Instruments" that let them do so
without the tedium of involving parliament, but when it comes to even
using the few teeth they have (on telcos, broadcasters, or ...), very
unwilling to do so.

[John Williamson]

On 05/09/2023 15:16, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
The upshot is that I managed to get my contract - which would have ended

Post by J. P. Gilliver
in February ('24) - renewed for 2 years, i. e. to September '25 -
keeping exactly what I have now, i. e. broadband and anytime (up to an
hour) calls. (I think there's a limit on calling mobiles, but it was in
the thousands of hours a month, so I'm not bothered!) Not even mention
of having to go to VoIP, though provided I can use my same 'phones, I'm
not bothered about that, as long as I keep the number.

If you have a POTS line now, all you will need to do is plug the POTS
phone into the phone port on the new router when it arrives. CLI and
other stuff works, as do pulse dial phones with a real bell on most routers.

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
The upshot is that I managed to get my contract - which would have ended

Post by J. P. Gilliver
in February ('24) - renewed for 2 years, i. e. to September '25 -
keeping exactly what I have now, i. e. broadband and anytime (up to an
hour) calls. (I think there's a limit on calling mobiles, but it was in
the thousands of hours a month, so I'm not bothered!) Not even mention
of having to go to VoIP, though provided I can use my same 'phones, I'm
not bothered about that, as long as I keep the number.

If you have a POTS line now, all you will need to do is plug the POTS
phone into the phone port on the new router when it arrives. CLI and
other stuff works, as do pulse dial phones with a real bell on most routers.

Yes, if the provider is providing (!) a VoIP service. It seems PlusNet
are currently planning not to (even though they're providing "routers"
with the necessary hardware in them [I have such a router as had to get
a new one from them]). If the provider doesn't implement a VoIP as a
replacement for the POTS line, having the hardware in the router won't
help.

[Mark Carver]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
Yes, if the provider is providing (!) a VoIP service. It seems PlusNet
are currently planning not to (even though they're providing "routers"
with the necessary hardware in them [I have such a router as had to
get a new one from them]). If the provider doesn't implement a VoIP as
a replacement for the POTS line, having the hardware in the router
won't help.

PlusNet are the non frills arm of BT Group. Demand for 'Landline' phones
is low, and getting lower, so I don't think PlusNet will ever offer a
VoIP service.
The routers are basically the same as used for 'Full Fat' BT, so cheaper
for 'BT Group' to obtain one size fits all hardware.

[John Williamson]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by John Williamson
If you have a POTS line now, all you will need to do is plug the POTS
phone into the phone port on the new router when it arrives. CLI and
other stuff works, as do pulse dial phones with a real bell on most routers.

Yes, if the provider is providing (!) a VoIP service. It seems PlusNet
are currently planning not to (even though they're providing "routers"
with the necessary hardware in them [I have such a router as had to get
a new one from them]). If the provider doesn't implement a VoIP as a
replacement for the POTS line, having the hardware in the router won't
help.

I did say "if you have POTS" which Plusnet don't currently offer. As far
as Plusnet goes, if you want a virtual landline and POTS number to work
with your POTS phone, there are third party suppliers. As far as Plusnet
are concerned, it's just data.

[Mark Carver]

Post by John Williamson
I did say "if you have POTS" which Plusnet don't currently offer.

They did until today. From now onwards for any new contract with Plusnet
you get no form or voice service (POTS or VoIP)

If you currently have a POTS service with Plusnet (as I do) then that
will cease in Dec 2025, or when you renew your contract (which ever
comes sooner)

From today it will be impossible to get a POTS line with any supplier
(that uses Openreach's network and infrastructure)

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by John Williamson
I did say "if you have POTS" which Plusnet don't currently offer.

They did until today. From now onwards for any new contract with
Plusnet you get no form or voice service (POTS or VoIP)
If you currently have a POTS service with Plusnet (as I do) then that
will cease in Dec 2025, or when you renew your contract (which ever
comes sooner)

Hmm, so I was very lucky that I spoke to them (can't remember whether it
was Monday or Tuesday - I think the latter) and secured a 2 year
extension!

Post by Mark Carver
From today it will be impossible to get a POTS line with any supplier
(that uses Openreach's network and infrastructure)

So, assuming the industry has sorted things out by late 2025 re number
transfers, I'll have to switch to a 3rd party VoIP supplier (PlusNet
still carrying the data, but presumably that's no different from if I
took out a Netflix, Sky, or other such contract). Anyone got any idea
what VoIP companies are charging, monthly, for unlimited use?

[Theo]

Post by Mark Carver

Post by John Williamson
I did say "if you have POTS" which Plusnet don't currently offer.

They did until today. From now onwards for any new contract with Plusnet
you get no form or voice service (POTS or VoIP)
If you currently have a POTS service with Plusnet (as I do) then that
will cease in Dec 2025, or when you renew your contract (which ever
comes sooner)
From today it will be impossible to get a POTS line with any supplier
(that uses Openreach's network and infrastructure)

This is a complete dog's breakfast, in particular with the shutdown of John
Lewis Broadband (a rebrand of Plusnet). JLB contracts are ending, but
customers are discovering that switching to Plusnet shuts off their phone.

A cryptic letter was sent in July telling people to re-contract with PN
before 5 September, but not explaining why - and there was no offer that JLB
customers could leave penalty free before their contract end date.

Since JLB is ending, I think continuing with JLB on a rolling basis is not
possible either. So customers get to the end of their contract and there is
nowhere to go to keep their phone. PN's only option is for customers to
sign up to BT, at very different tariffs etc.

(of course, we here know that porting the number to VOIP is an option, but
that's another planet compared with these ISPs)

Theo

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Chris J Dixon
Whilst exploring if both phone sockets on my Virgin router can be
used in parallel (they can't), at one point I had a very old

What do you mean by "in parallel" - plugging two 'phones into them
(maybe one via an extension lead)? If they can't, what do you think is
the reason for there being two of them?

I was, prompted by discussion elsewhere, which you may recall,
experimenting to see if I could connect my DECT base station to
one socket, and use the other to back feed the existing (but
disconnected form BT) wired sockets around the house. I found
that both alone would work, but only one socket on the router is
live.

I now understand that the second socket can be set up, at a
price, to provide another phone line.

Chris

[Roderick Stewart]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
I didn't mean do they supply _some_ sort of CLI, I meant does the
router/adaperbox/whatever convert it so that 'phones that work with the
existing CLI continue to work.

Yes, from personal experience, both Zen and BT routers do this, so
presumably it's standard. You won't need a special phone; just plug
the existing one into the router instead of the socket on the wall.

Zen and BT routers (and possibly others) can also function as DECT
base stations. In theory any DECT phone should work with any DECT base
station, and at least the basic functions should work, though I only
achieved limited success trying a BT handset with the Zen Fritzbox
router. Maybe the Fritz handsets that are designed for them would work
better, but they're expensive, and my existing phone works just fine
and the wiring to plug it in is already in place.

With the most recent BT routers there is an option to buy new DECT
handsets designed to work with them, which is what was chosen for
another family installation, and I can vouch that they work very well.

Rod.

[Brian Gaff]

Well there are talking phones that do this, otherwise you could not screen a
call, and nobody has said it does not work. I use truecall, and wondered if
that would still work on the voip. Brian
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Post by Robin

Post by J. P. Gilliver
After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still being
sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the special
socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still works. (I. e.
does the 'phone show who's calling.)

I know from family BT Digital Voice does (in and out). I'd be very
surprised if any other grown-up firm doesn't: it's required of all
communication providers unless they can show it's too difficult/expensive.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

[Roderick Stewart]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

Yes, it works on Zen's system. I didn't have to reconfigure anything,
just plug the phone into the router they supplied.

Rod.

[tony sayer]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
After POTS is dropped and we all go VoIP, will it support CLI?
Perhaps some of those already on VoIP, but using their "old" (still
being sold, I think) fancy 'phones that displayed CLI plugged into the
special socket on the router or whatever, can tell us if CLI still
works. (I. e. does the 'phone show who's calling.)

We started using VoIP some 10 or more years ago using VM as the Internet
carrier and im more recent times dumped those RB's and went to Zen via
openreach copper. I still have the Landline number but it comes down the
mobile as a data stream Not a simple divert!

We use VoIPfone fro that and yes you can configure CLI

But these days I just use the mobile now much simpler more flexible and
cheaper overall:))

[J. P. Gilliver]

In message <***@bancom.co.uk> at Mon, 4 Sep 2023 14:36:16,
tony sayer <***@bancom.co.uk> writes
[]

Post by tony sayer
We started using VoIP some 10 or more years ago using VM as the Internet
carrier and im more recent times dumped those RB's and went to Zen via
openreach copper. I still have the Landline number but it comes down the
mobile as a data stream Not a simple divert!

(So if someone 'phones the number, what happens?)

Post by tony sayer
We use VoIPfone fro that and yes you can configure CLI
But these days I just use the mobile now much simpler more flexible and
cheaper overall:))

If you're paying a monthly mobile anyway, yes. I'm not. I live a fairly
hermit lifestyle (don't go out much); I have broadband and anytime
'phone for twentysomething a month from PN, and PAYG for the mobile (of
which there's still some of the tenner I put on it when I bought it
left).

[tony sayer]

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by tony sayer
We started using VoIP some 10 or more years ago using VM as the Internet
carrier and im more recent times dumped those RB's and went to Zen via
openreach copper. I still have the Landline number but it comes down the
mobile as a data stream Not a simple divert!

(So if someone 'phones the number, what happens?)

** My mobile rings!

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by tony sayer
We use VoIPfone fro that and yes you can configure CLI
But these days I just use the mobile now much simpler more flexible and
cheaper overall:))

If you're paying a monthly mobile anyway, yes. I'm not. I live a fairly
hermit lifestyle (don't go out much); I have broadband and anytime
'phone for twentysomething a month from PN, and PAYG for the mobile (of
which there's still some of the tenner I put on it when I bought it
left).

What works for you is fine!..

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by tony sayer

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by tony sayer
We started using VoIP some 10 or more years ago using VM as the Internet
carrier and im more recent times dumped those RB's and went to Zen via
openreach copper. I still have the Landline number but it comes down the
mobile as a data stream Not a simple divert!

(So if someone 'phones the number, what happens?)

** My mobile rings!

Ah. I was wondering what you meant by "as a data stream Not a simple
divert". Obviously _everything_ that comes to a mobile these days is
data, but it sounds like to a _practical_ effect your calls _do_ come as
a divert. (I take it you have no way of making _outgoing_ calls that
appear to come from that number.)

Post by tony sayer

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by tony sayer
We use VoIPfone fro that and yes you can configure CLI
But these days I just use the mobile now much simpler more flexible and
cheaper overall:))

If you're paying a monthly mobile anyway, yes. I'm not. I live a fairly
hermit lifestyle (don't go out much); I have broadband and anytime
'phone for twentysomething a month from PN, and PAYG for the mobile (of
which there's still some of the tenner I put on it when I bought it
left).

What works for you is fine!..

(-:

[tony sayer]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by tony sayer

Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]

Post by tony sayer
We started using VoIP some 10 or more years ago using VM as the Internet
carrier and im more recent times dumped those RB's and went to Zen via
openreach copper. I still have the Landline number but it comes down the
mobile as a data stream Not a simple divert!

(So if someone 'phones the number, what happens?)

** My mobile rings!

Ah. I was wondering what you meant by "as a data stream Not a simple
divert". Obviously _everything_ that comes to a mobile these days is
data, but it sounds like to a _practical_ effect your calls _do_ come as
a divert. (I take it you have no way of making _outgoing_ calls that
appear to come from that number.)

Yes thats more or less it and no, never tried making calls via VoIP over
the mobile it might be doable but it works fine dialling out on the
mobile - free calls:)

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by tony sayer

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by tony sayer
We use VoIPfone fro that and yes you can configure CLI
But these days I just use the mobile now much simpler more flexible and
cheaper overall:))

If you're paying a monthly mobile anyway, yes. I'm not. I live a fairly
hermit lifestyle (don't go out much); I have broadband and anytime
'phone for twentysomething a month from PN, and PAYG for the mobile (of
which there's still some of the tenner I put on it when I bought it
left).

What works for you is fine!..

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Platinium visa - 350 euro ---- plafond 10000 euros

Platinium Visa - 450 euros ----> plafond 20000 euros
Platinium Mastercard - 500 euros ----> plafond 22500 euros

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===> List Price for fresh Credit Card (CC,CCV,Ccs)
- US (visa/master) = 35$ per 1
- US (Amex,Dis) = 65$ per 1
- US Bin = 15$, US Dob = 65$
- US fullz info = 65$ per 1
- UK (visa/master) = 50$ per 1
- UK (Amex,Dis) = 60$ per 1
- UK Bin = 30$, UK Dob = 65$
- UK fullz info = 85$ per 1
- CA (visa/master) = 50$ per 1
- CA (Amex,Dis) = 50$ per 1
- CA Bin = 25$, CA Dob = 55$
- CA fullz info = 65$ per 1
- AU (visa/master) = 65$
- AU (Amex,Dis) = 65$ per 1
- AU Bin = 30$, AU Dob = 65$
- AU fullz info = 65$ per 1
- EU (Visa,Master) = 65$ per 1
- EU (Amex,Dis) = 65$ per 1
- EU Bin = 35$, AU Dob = 65$
- EU fullz info = 60$ per 1



Others Country:
- Italy = 65$ per 1 (fullz info = 65$)
- Spain = 65$ per 1 (fullz info = 65$)
- Denmark = 65$ per 1 (fullz info = 65$)
- Sweden = 65$ per 1 (fullz info = 65$)
- France = 65$ per 1 (fullz info = 65$)
- Germany = 65$ per 1 (fullz info = 65$)
- Ireland = 65$ per 1 (fullz info = 65$)
- Mexico = 65$ per 1 (fullz info = 65$)
- Asia = 85$ per 1 (fullz info = 65$)
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30 CC Dob + Bin UK = 500$
20 CC Dob + Bin CA = 500$
20 CC Dob + Bin AU = 500$
20 CC Dob + Bin EU = 600$


* SSN / DOB:
150$ - 200$ = 400 info SSN DOB (Name + Adresss + City + State + Fone + SSN + DOB):
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===> Price for track1&2:
** Usa :101
- Visa Classic, MasterCard Standart =45$
- Visa Gold|Platinum|Business, MasterCard Gold|Platinum = 50$
- American Express = $50 (Without SID)
- Discover = $50

** Canada: 101 201
- Visa Classic, MasterCard Standart = 45$
- Visa Gold|Platinum|Business, MasterCard Gold|Platinum = 50$

** EU, UK: 101 201
- Classic|Standart = 60$
- Gold|Platinum = 70$
- Business|Signature|Purchase|Corporate|World = 100$

** ASIA/AUSTRALIA/Exotic: 101 201 121
- MasterCard| Visa Classic = $50
- Visa Gold|Platinum|Corporate|Signature|Business = $70

** Other countries: 101 201
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===> Price for track and Track 1 & 2(With/without Pin):
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- Tracks 1&2 US = 100$/1, No Pin 50$
- Tracks 1&2 UK = 110$/1, No Pin 60$
- Tracks 1&2 EU = 120$/1, No Pin 80$
- Tracks 1&2 AU = 120$/1, No Pin 80$
- Tracks 1&2 CA = 120$/1, No Pin 80$


Demo:
Track 1: B4867967032437166^AVALLONE/SONJA^13011010000000472000000
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- Account balance:
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. Balance 3000$ = 300$
. Balance 6000$ = 500$
. Balance 8000$ = 600$
. Balance 12000$ = 800$
. Balance 15000$ = 1000$
. Balance 20000$ = 1200$

**UK: (LLOYDS TSB,BARCLAYS,Standard Chartered,HSBC...)
. Balance 3000 GBP = 400$
. Balance 6000 GBP = 600$
. Balance 10000 GBP = 800$
. Balance 12000 GBP = 900$
. Balance 16000 GBP = 1000$
. Balance 20000 GBP = 1500$
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100$ = 1 Account PP 2000$
200$ = 1 Account PP 4500$
300$ = 1 Account PP 8500$
500$ = 1 Account PP 13000$


===> Price of ATM Card ($/£/€):

ATM card 4000$ = 250$
ATM card 7000$ = 450$

ATM card 6000$ = 350$
ATM card 8000$ = 750$

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ATM card 5000£ = 300$

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.......................................
WhatsApp : [phone]
Telegram: https://t.me/dumpscvvlogs
Telegram: @dumpscvvlogs
................................


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-------------------------------------------------

- Payment methods : BTC(Bitcoin)


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