Discussion:
Classic DAB
(too old to reply)
Scott
2023-09-25 09:26:27 UTC
Permalink
I have written to Global Radio to ask about the bitrate when Classic
FM moves to DAB+ in 2024 but they cannot tell me at this stage. Is
there any word on 'da streets' (as Ali G would say)?
JMB99
2023-09-25 11:41:08 UTC
Permalink
I have written to Global Radio to ask about the bitrate when Classic FM
moves to DAB+ in 2024 but they cannot tell me at this stage. Is there
any word on 'da streets' (as Ali G would say)?
Can't you check it?

I think all my DAB radios will display the bitrate.

I can't check Classic because of their limited coverage and never
bothered listening to them when away from home.
Scott
2023-09-25 11:57:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMB99
I have written to Global Radio to ask about the bitrate when Classic FM
moves to DAB+ in 2024 but they cannot tell me at this stage. Is there
any word on 'da streets' (as Ali G would say)?
Can't you check it?
No, because the move to DAB+ will not take place until start of 2024.
Mark Carver
2023-09-25 11:57:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMB99
Post by Scott
I have written to Global Radio to ask about the bitrate when Classic
FM moves to DAB+ in 2024 but they cannot tell me at this stage. Is
there any word on 'da streets' (as Ali G would say)?
Can't you check it?
No one can check it, because the transmission on DAB+ hasn't started yet.

Why worry about the bit rate (and it's not the only thing that
influences the final sound quality anyway).
If it sounds crap, don't listen, if it sounds OK carry on listening.
Simples.
Scott
2023-09-25 12:00:12 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 12:57:34 +0100, Mark Carver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by JMB99
Post by Scott
I have written to Global Radio to ask about the bitrate when Classic
FM moves to DAB+ in 2024 but they cannot tell me at this stage. Is
there any word on 'da streets' (as Ali G would say)?
Can't you check it?
No one can check it, because the transmission on DAB+ hasn't started yet.
Why worry about the bit rate (and it's not the only thing that
influences the final sound quality anyway).
If it sounds crap, don't listen, if it sounds OK carry on listening.
Simples.
It's more out of curiosity than any real need to know. They describe
it as an improvement, which seems to me a claim that has to be
verifiable.
Tweed
2023-09-25 12:10:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 12:57:34 +0100, Mark Carver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by JMB99
Post by Scott
I have written to Global Radio to ask about the bitrate when Classic
FM moves to DAB+ in 2024 but they cannot tell me at this stage. Is
there any word on 'da streets' (as Ali G would say)?
Can't you check it?
No one can check it, because the transmission on DAB+ hasn't started yet.
Why worry about the bit rate (and it's not the only thing that
influences the final sound quality anyway).
If it sounds crap, don't listen, if it sounds OK carry on listening.
Simples.
It's more out of curiosity than any real need to know. They describe
it as an improvement, which seems to me a claim that has to be
verifiable.
It might well be an improvement- for their finances rather than for your
enjoyment. Words take on a whole range of new meanings in the hands of
marketing folk.

Anyway, I’ve no idea how you can be worried about the sound quality given
the pollution of the sound stream by adverts. They are very many dB up the
irritation scale for me.
Brian Gaff
2023-09-26 13:14:04 UTC
Permalink
Its over compressed most of the time and I tend to feel most of their shows
are voicetracked in any case.
Brian
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Post by Mark Carver
Post by JMB99
I have written to Global Radio to ask about the bitrate when Classic FM
moves to DAB+ in 2024 but they cannot tell me at this stage. Is there
any word on 'da streets' (as Ali G would say)?
Can't you check it?
No one can check it, because the transmission on DAB+ hasn't started yet.
Why worry about the bit rate (and it's not the only thing that influences
the final sound quality anyway).
If it sounds crap, don't listen, if it sounds OK carry on listening.
Simples.
Scott
2023-09-26 13:16:12 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 14:14:04 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
Its over compressed most of the time and I tend to feel most of their shows
are voicetracked in any case.
Do you think Ritula Shah (10pm onwards) is voicetracked? She certainly
tries to give an impression she is in the studio. Interestingly,
Classic FM never has any timechecks.
Andy Burns
2023-09-25 13:29:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMB99
Post by Scott
I have written to Global Radio to ask about the bitrate when Classic
FM moves to DAB+ in 2024
Can't you check it?
If he can, would he get that week's lottery numbers while he's at it?
Brian Gaff
2023-09-26 13:11:38 UTC
Permalink
Sorry we cannot tell you as we are all marketing men, not technicians, we
will use whatever is cheapest and nobody complains.
OK I made it up, but its paraphrasing a lot of the bullshit you get from
broadcasters these days.
Brian
--
--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Post by Scott
I have written to Global Radio to ask about the bitrate when Classic
FM moves to DAB+ in 2024 but they cannot tell me at this stage. Is
there any word on 'da streets' (as Ali G would say)?
Scott
2023-09-26 13:13:56 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 14:11:38 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
Sorry we cannot tell you as we are all marketing men, not technicians, we
will use whatever is cheapest and nobody complains.
OK I made it up, but its paraphrasing a lot of the bullshit you get from
broadcasters these days.
Brian
Or it may be they consider it to be commercially sensitive to prevent
competitors finding out and adjusting their own arrangements.
Nonetheless, I would be interested to know whether it will be better
than 128 kbps MP2.
JMB99
2023-09-26 14:09:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Or it may be they consider it to be commercially sensitive to prevent
competitors finding out and adjusting their own arrangements.
Many years ago before retirement, I tried to get a list of offsets but
was told it was commercially sensitive!

I could of course measure them using my cheap scanner.
Brian Gaff
2023-09-28 07:53:17 UTC
Permalink
How can offsets be commercially sensitive, unless you were in the business
of making jammers.
Somebody was going on about DAB plus using VBR, which I would say means
variable bit rates. That would seem to me to be a recipe for disaster on a
multiplex, as if every channel suddenly put out white noise it would run out
of bandwidth!

Also, why are so many of the talk only channels on DAB completely impossible
to listen to without fatigue. They sound gritty and flat on human voices, as
apposed to unhuman ones. grin. What I mean is that every voice you hear
sounds like its made up of tiny little bits with a watermark of low
frequency in it. Its a bit like you can get over a mobile phone just before
the signal drops out when its struggling.
Please the engineers need to actually listen, and not just keeping on
squeezing more into less.
Brian
--
--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Post by Scott
Or it may be they consider it to be commercially sensitive to prevent
competitors finding out and adjusting their own arrangements.
Many years ago before retirement, I tried to get a list of offsets but was
told it was commercially sensitive!
I could of course measure them using my cheap scanner.
Scott
2023-09-28 14:54:21 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 08:53:17 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
How can offsets be commercially sensitive, unless you were in the business
of making jammers.
Somebody was going on about DAB plus using VBR, which I would say means
variable bit rates. That would seem to me to be a recipe for disaster on a
multiplex, as if every channel suddenly put out white noise it would run out
of bandwidth!
Surely this is what the BBC do with R4 (128/80 kbps), R3 (192/160
kbps), R5L (80/64 kbps) to accommodate R5L Sports Extra?
Post by Brian Gaff
Also, why are so many of the talk only channels on DAB completely impossible
to listen to without fatigue. They sound gritty and flat on human voices, as
apposed to unhuman ones. grin. What I mean is that every voice you hear
sounds like its made up of tiny little bits with a watermark of low
frequency in it. Its a bit like you can get over a mobile phone just before
the signal drops out when its struggling.
Please the engineers need to actually listen, and not just keeping on
squeezing more into less.
I would point the finger at the accountants not the engineers.
J. P. Gilliver
2023-09-28 17:22:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 08:53:17 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
How can offsets be commercially sensitive, unless you were in the business
of making jammers.
Somebody was going on about DAB plus using VBR, which I would say means
variable bit rates. That would seem to me to be a recipe for disaster on a
multiplex, as if every channel suddenly put out white noise it would run out
of bandwidth!
Surely this is what the BBC do with R4 (128/80 kbps), R3 (192/160
kbps), R5L (80/64 kbps) to accommodate R5L Sports Extra?
VBR usually means moment-to-moment variation; the BBC's switches are at
predefined times.
[]
Post by Scott
Post by Brian Gaff
Please the engineers need to actually listen, and not just keeping on
squeezing more into less.
I would point the finger at the accountants not the engineers.
Indeed. Engineers are ignored, except when needed to help with the
current balance of savings versus complaints.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never rely on somebody else for your happiness.
- Bette Davis, quoted by Celia Imrie, RT 2014/3/12-18
Mark Carver
2023-09-28 14:21:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 14:11:38 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
Sorry we cannot tell you as we are all marketing men, not technicians, we
will use whatever is cheapest and nobody complains.
OK I made it up, but its paraphrasing a lot of the bullshit you get from
broadcasters these days.
Brian
Or it may be they consider it to be commercially sensitive to prevent
competitors finding out and adjusting their own arrangements.
Particularly as arch rivals Bauer announced yesterday a large scale move
to DAB+

https://radiotoday.co.uk/2023/09/bauer-switches-national-radio-services-to-dab-and-takes-seven-extra-stations-national-on-sdl/
--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
Scott
2023-09-28 14:56:38 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:21:11 +0100, Mark Carver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by Scott
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 14:11:38 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
Sorry we cannot tell you as we are all marketing men, not technicians, we
will use whatever is cheapest and nobody complains.
OK I made it up, but its paraphrasing a lot of the bullshit you get from
broadcasters these days.
Brian
Or it may be they consider it to be commercially sensitive to prevent
competitors finding out and adjusting their own arrangements.
Particularly as arch rivals Bauer announced yesterday a large scale move
to DAB+
https://radiotoday.co.uk/2023/09/bauer-switches-national-radio-services-to-dab-and-takes-seven-extra-stations-national-on-sdl/
Will the BBC be next?
Mark Carver
2023-09-29 13:08:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:21:11 +0100, Mark Carver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by Scott
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 14:11:38 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
Sorry we cannot tell you as we are all marketing men, not technicians, we
will use whatever is cheapest and nobody complains.
OK I made it up, but its paraphrasing a lot of the bullshit you get from
broadcasters these days.
Brian
Or it may be they consider it to be commercially sensitive to prevent
competitors finding out and adjusting their own arrangements.
Particularly as arch rivals Bauer announced yesterday a large scale move
to DAB+
https://radiotoday.co.uk/2023/09/bauer-switches-national-radio-services-to-dab-and-takes-seven-extra-stations-national-on-sdl/
Will the BBC be next?
Unlikely, why would they move to DAB+, they are skint, and can't afford
to sustain their present services, let alone launch new ones, so why
make room for any more ?

In any case, to launch any new channels, they need to go through a
'Public Value Test' with Ofcom.
--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
Scott
2023-09-29 13:14:37 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:08:18 +0100, Mark Carver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by Scott
On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 15:21:11 +0100, Mark Carver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by Scott
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 14:11:38 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
Post by Brian Gaff
Sorry we cannot tell you as we are all marketing men, not technicians, we
will use whatever is cheapest and nobody complains.
OK I made it up, but its paraphrasing a lot of the bullshit you get from
broadcasters these days.
Brian
Or it may be they consider it to be commercially sensitive to prevent
competitors finding out and adjusting their own arrangements.
Particularly as arch rivals Bauer announced yesterday a large scale move
to DAB+
https://radiotoday.co.uk/2023/09/bauer-switches-national-radio-services-to-dab-and-takes-seven-extra-stations-national-on-sdl/
Will the BBC be next?
Unlikely, why would they move to DAB+, they are skint, and can't afford
to sustain their present services, let alone launch new ones, so why
make room for any more ?
Does it cost anything? I thought it was just a tweak in the software.
The incentive would be to cut carriage costs as a lower bitrate could
be used and I assume they could lease out spare capacity.
Post by Mark Carver
In any case, to launch any new channels, they need to go through a
'Public Value Test' with Ofcom.
But these are not new channels. Surely a change in transmission
standards does not require the same approval process as creating a new
channel?
Mark Carver
2023-09-29 14:22:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:08:18 +0100, Mark Carver
Does it cost anything? I thought it was just a tweak in the software.
The incentive would be to cut carriage costs as a lower bitrate could
be used
.....and lose about a third of their listeners ?

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-and-data/tv-radio-and-on-demand/radio-research/dab-radio
Post by Scott
and I assume they could lease out spare capacity.
They are not permitted to do that
--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
JMB99
2023-09-29 15:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Carver
Post by Scott
and I assume they could lease out spare capacity.
They are not permitted to do that
How is it different from leasing out space on their towers (when they
owned them)?

Not that I want any commercial stations locally!
Mark Carver
2023-10-01 14:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMB99
 > and I assume they could lease out spare capacity.
They are not permitted to do that
How is it different from leasing out space on their towers (when they
owned them)?
Not that I want any commercial stations locally!
It's not all about YOU want.
--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
Scott
2023-09-29 17:18:59 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 15:22:06 +0100, Mark Carver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by Scott
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:08:18 +0100, Mark Carver
Does it cost anything? I thought it was just a tweak in the software.
The incentive would be to cut carriage costs as a lower bitrate could
be used
.....and lose about a third of their listeners ?
I doubt that very much. I would doubt whether DAB accounts for more
than about one third of listeners overall and those with non-DAB+
compatible sets would form a small proportion of that figure. Anyway,
why does that matter as the licence fee is for TV sets and it really
doesn't matter that much how many people listen to the radio?
Post by Mark Carver
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-and-data/tv-radio-and-on-demand/radio-research/dab-radio
Post by Scott
and I assume they could lease out spare capacity.
They are not permitted to do that
I expect the savings in switching off MW/LW will more than cover the
opportunity cost of not leasing out capacity. Anyway, rules can be
changed. I'm sure there are politicians out there who would be happy
to privatise the whole BBC let alone a fraction of one multiplex.
J. P. Gilliver
2023-09-29 22:07:40 UTC
Permalink
In message <***@4ax.com> at Fri, 29 Sep
2023 18:18:59, Scott <***@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes
[]
Post by Scott
I doubt that very much. I would doubt whether DAB accounts for more
than about one third of listeners overall and those with non-DAB+
compatible sets would form a small proportion of that figure. Anyway,
why does that matter as the licence fee is for TV sets and it really
doesn't matter that much how many people listen to the radio?
[]
Incorrect. The licence fee is _collected_ from people with TV sets (very
roughly speaking), but _spent_ on TV and radio (and online, and lots of
other things). They do indeed care a lot how many people listen to it -
if they could _prove_ it was zero, they could stop doing it and save
lots of money.

(Note: the quote below was selected by my ancient [DOS-based!] software
at random, not by me!)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is one of the reasons being British is good. It's not a subset of
Britain - it's almost as if Britain is a subset of Radio 4. - Stephen Fry, in
Radio Times, 7-13 June, 2003.
Scott
2023-09-30 08:51:08 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 23:07:40 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]
Post by Scott
I doubt that very much. I would doubt whether DAB accounts for more
than about one third of listeners overall and those with non-DAB+
compatible sets would form a small proportion of that figure. Anyway,
why does that matter as the licence fee is for TV sets and it really
doesn't matter that much how many people listen to the radio?
[]
Incorrect. The licence fee is _collected_ from people with TV sets (very
roughly speaking), but _spent_ on TV and radio (and online, and lots of
other things). They do indeed care a lot how many people listen to it -
if they could _prove_ it was zero, they could stop doing it and save
lots of money.
So where is the incentive to cater for the small number of people who
listen on non-DAB+ radios and are unwilling to upgrade? Do they write
more letters to the Telegraph or something?
J. P. Gilliver
2023-09-30 11:29:55 UTC
Permalink
In message <***@4ax.com> at Sat, 30 Sep
2023 09:51:08, Scott <***@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes
[]
Post by Scott
[]
Post by Scott
I doubt that very much. I would doubt whether DAB accounts for more
than about one third of listeners overall and those with non-DAB+
compatible sets would form a small proportion of that figure. Anyway,
why does that matter as the licence fee is for TV sets and it really
doesn't matter that much how many people listen to the radio?
[]
Post by Scott
So where is the incentive to cater for the small number of people who
listen on non-DAB+ radios and are unwilling to upgrade? Do they write
more letters to the Telegraph or something?
I wonder if it _is_ a small number. When DAB first came out, the sets
were of course expensive (so only few bought them); then they got
cheaper, and presumably lots of people bought them, not necessarily to
get DAB, just that it became part of all but the cheapest radios. Then
DAB+ came along - initially expensive, and also not particularly
promoted by the retail industry. I suspect there are quite a lot of
non-plus sets about - especially in cars, given the British habit of
hanging on to cars longer than the manufacturers would like. It'd be
interesting to see actual figures (though these will be skewed by
whoever commissions their collection, by loading the questions).

They probably _do_ include a higher proportion of letter-writers (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Does Barbie come with Ken?"
"Barbie comes with G.I. Joe. She fakes it with Ken." - anonymous
Scott
2023-10-02 17:57:23 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 12:29:55 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
Post by J. P. Gilliver
[]
Post by Scott
[]
Post by Scott
I doubt that very much. I would doubt whether DAB accounts for more
than about one third of listeners overall and those with non-DAB+
compatible sets would form a small proportion of that figure. Anyway,
why does that matter as the licence fee is for TV sets and it really
doesn't matter that much how many people listen to the radio?
[]
Post by Scott
So where is the incentive to cater for the small number of people who
listen on non-DAB+ radios and are unwilling to upgrade? Do they write
more letters to the Telegraph or something?
I wonder if it _is_ a small number. When DAB first came out, the sets
were of course expensive (so only few bought them); then they got
cheaper, and presumably lots of people bought them, not necessarily to
get DAB, just that it became part of all but the cheapest radios. Then
DAB+ came along - initially expensive, and also not particularly
promoted by the retail industry. I suspect there are quite a lot of
non-plus sets about - especially in cars, given the British habit of
hanging on to cars longer than the manufacturers would like. It'd be
interesting to see actual figures (though these will be skewed by
whoever commissions their collection, by loading the questions).
I thought (nearly) all car radios were DAB+ for compatibility with
other European markets.
Andy Burns
2023-10-02 18:53:20 UTC
Permalink
I thought (nearly) all car radios were DAB+ for compatibility with other
European markets.
My present car (67 plate which came with DAB as standard) is DAB+, the
previous car (11 plate where I had to specify DAB as an option) was DAB
only.
Scott
2023-10-02 19:56:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
I thought (nearly) all car radios were DAB+ for compatibility with other
European markets.
My present car (67 plate which came with DAB as standard) is DAB+, the
previous car (11 plate where I had to specify DAB as an option) was DAB
only.
Could there be an upgrade option via software?
Paul Ratcliffe
2023-10-02 23:37:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Post by Andy Burns
I thought (nearly) all car radios were DAB+ for compatibility with other
European markets.
My present car (67 plate which came with DAB as standard) is DAB+, the
previous car (11 plate where I had to specify DAB as an option) was DAB
only.
Could there be an upgrade option via software?
In the same way you can upgrade an FM radio to DAB via software?
Scott
2023-10-03 08:38:44 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 23:37:32 GMT, Paul Ratcliffe
Post by Paul Ratcliffe
Post by Scott
Post by Andy Burns
I thought (nearly) all car radios were DAB+ for compatibility with other
European markets.
My present car (67 plate which came with DAB as standard) is DAB+, the
previous car (11 plate where I had to specify DAB as an option) was DAB
only.
Could there be an upgrade option via software?
In the same way you can upgrade an FM radio to DAB via software?
No, obviously not. In the same way that some Pure radios in Australia
could be upgraded to DAB+ with the purchase of a 'licence' key that
unlocked the DAB+ capability. This may be of interest:
https://www.digitalradiochoice.com/questions/upgrade-pure-radio-receive-dab-plus-stations/
Andy Burns
2023-10-03 01:49:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Post by Andy Burns
My present car (67 plate which came with DAB as standard) is DAB+, the
previous car (11 plate where I had to specify DAB as an option) was DAB
only.
Could there be an upgrade option via software?
Unlikely, there wasn't for my (now unused) Pure Evoke3.
J. P. Gilliver
2023-09-29 22:04:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Carver
Post by Scott
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:08:18 +0100, Mark Carver
Does it cost anything? I thought it was just a tweak in the software.
The incentive would be to cut carriage costs as a lower bitrate could
be used
.....and lose about a third of their listeners ?
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-and-data/tv-radio-and-on-demand/radio-
research/dab-radio
Post by Scott
and I assume they could lease out spare capacity.
They are not permitted to do that
I'm pretty sure everything from the bitstream outward is outsourced now,
so Arqiva or whoever would just charge less, and it would be they who
lease out the spare capacity. It would be presented as just the BBC
devising a way of being charged less, for which they would be praised.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is one of the reasons being British is good. It's not a subset of
Britain - it's almost as if Britain is a subset of Radio 4. - Stephen Fry, in
Radio Times, 7-13 June, 2003.
Mark Carver
2023-10-01 14:05:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by Scott
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:08:18 +0100, Mark Carver
Does it cost anything?  I thought it was just a tweak in the software.
The incentive would be to cut carriage costs as a lower bitrate could
be used
.....and lose about a third of their listeners ?
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-and-data/tv-radio-and-on-demand/radio-
research/dab-radio
Post by Scott
and I assume they could lease out spare capacity.
They are not permitted to do that
I'm pretty sure everything from the bitstream outward is outsourced now,
so Arqiva or whoever would just charge less, and it would be they who
lease out the spare capacity. It would be presented as just the BBC
devising a way of being charged less, for which they would be praised.
It's BBC allocated spectrum, they cannot just sub lease it.
--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
Scott
2023-10-02 18:00:19 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:05:30 +0100, Mark Carver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by Scott
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:08:18 +0100, Mark Carver
Does it cost anything?  I thought it was just a tweak in the software.
The incentive would be to cut carriage costs as a lower bitrate could
be used
.....and lose about a third of their listeners ?
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-and-data/tv-radio-and-on-demand/radio-
research/dab-radio
Post by Scott
and I assume they could lease out spare capacity.
They are not permitted to do that
I'm pretty sure everything from the bitstream outward is outsourced now,
so Arqiva or whoever would just charge less, and it would be they who
lease out the spare capacity. It would be presented as just the BBC
devising a way of being charged less, for which they would be praised.
It's BBC allocated spectrum, they cannot just sub lease it.
It didn't stop them selling the transmitters to Crown Castle (now
Arqiva). Regulations can be changed by the government as it pleases.
Woody
2023-10-02 20:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:05:30 +0100, Mark Carver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by Scott
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:08:18 +0100, Mark Carver
Does it cost anything?  I thought it was just a tweak in the software.
The incentive would be to cut carriage costs as a lower bitrate could
be used
.....and lose about a third of their listeners ?
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-and-data/tv-radio-and-on-demand/radio-
research/dab-radio
Post by Scott
and I assume they could lease out spare capacity.
They are not permitted to do that
I'm pretty sure everything from the bitstream outward is outsourced now,
so Arqiva or whoever would just charge less, and it would be they who
lease out the spare capacity. It would be presented as just the BBC
devising a way of being charged less, for which they would be praised.
It's BBC allocated spectrum, they cannot just sub lease it.
It didn't stop them selling the transmitters to Crown Castle (now
Arqiva). Regulations can be changed by the government as it pleases.
You imply that CC became Arqiva. Nope. CC sold the operation to National
Grid Wireless which in turn was bought by Arqiva.
Scott
2023-10-02 21:07:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Woody
Post by Scott
On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 15:05:30 +0100, Mark Carver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by J. P. Gilliver
Post by Mark Carver
Post by Scott
On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 14:08:18 +0100, Mark Carver
Does it cost anything?  I thought it was just a tweak in the software.
The incentive would be to cut carriage costs as a lower bitrate could
be used
.....and lose about a third of their listeners ?
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/research-and-data/tv-radio-and-on-demand/radio-
research/dab-radio
Post by Scott
and I assume they could lease out spare capacity.
They are not permitted to do that
I'm pretty sure everything from the bitstream outward is outsourced now,
so Arqiva or whoever would just charge less, and it would be they who
lease out the spare capacity. It would be presented as just the BBC
devising a way of being charged less, for which they would be praised.
It's BBC allocated spectrum, they cannot just sub lease it.
It didn't stop them selling the transmitters to Crown Castle (now
Arqiva). Regulations can be changed by the government as it pleases.
You imply that CC became Arqiva. Nope. CC sold the operation to National
Grid Wireless which in turn was bought by Arqiva.
Thanks for the clarification. I was unaware of the full history.
JMB99
2023-10-02 21:41:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
It didn't stop them selling the transmitters to Crown Castle (now
Arqiva). Regulations can be changed by the government as it pleases.
They didn't, it went through a few stages before it became Crown Castle
International.
Scott
2023-10-03 08:39:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMB99
Post by Scott
It didn't stop them selling the transmitters to Crown Castle (now
Arqiva). Regulations can be changed by the government as it pleases.
They didn't, it went through a few stages before it became Crown Castle
International.
Woody has already clarified this. Check his post.
JMB99
2023-10-03 10:58:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Woody has already clarified this. Check his post.
I think it was initially Castle Transmission Holdings, then Castle
Transmission Ltd(?) before they could become Castle Transmission
International, not sure it went straight to Crown Castle International
(could have also been an intermediate stage).

I have a feeling that National Grid Wireless also went through a couple
of stages, before becoming National Grid Wireless.

And of course with typical corporate BS, they liked all previous names
removed. At one point they sent out loads of new professionally made
metal and plastic signs for ALL sites (even the smallest and most sites
never had signs) but forget to allocate any funds for fitting them so
most were never fitted.
Scott
2023-10-03 11:29:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by JMB99
Post by Scott
Woody has already clarified this. Check his post.
I think it was initially Castle Transmission Holdings, then Castle
Transmission Ltd(?) before they could become Castle Transmission
International, not sure it went straight to Crown Castle International
(could have also been an intermediate stage).
I have a feeling that National Grid Wireless also went through a couple
of stages, before becoming National Grid Wireless.
And of course with typical corporate BS, they liked all previous names
removed. At one point they sent out loads of new professionally made
metal and plastic signs for ALL sites (even the smallest and most sites
never had signs) but forget to allocate any funds for fitting them so
most were never fitted.
I take it overlaid on that there was ITA > IBA > National
Transcommunications Limited (NTL) > ..... > Arqiva?
Woody
2023-10-03 16:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Post by JMB99
Post by Scott
Woody has already clarified this. Check his post.
I think it was initially Castle Transmission Holdings, then Castle
Transmission Ltd(?) before they could become Castle Transmission
International, not sure it went straight to Crown Castle International
(could have also been an intermediate stage).
I have a feeling that National Grid Wireless also went through a couple
of stages, before becoming National Grid Wireless.
And of course with typical corporate BS, they liked all previous names
removed. At one point they sent out loads of new professionally made
metal and plastic signs for ALL sites (even the smallest and most sites
never had signs) but forget to allocate any funds for fitting them so
most were never fitted.
I take it overlaid on that there was ITA > IBA > National
Transcommunications Limited (NTL) > ..... > Arqiva?
No, they didn't come into the final field until after they took over NGW
and by that time had become Arqiva. NTL wanted to merge with Telewest so
had to raise some funds and the easiest way was to get rid of the
transmission business.

Have a look at the Wikipedia entry for Arqiva for more info.
What it doesn't mention is the purchase (£1?) of DTels in 1994(?), it
does mention the absorption of the Simoco sites and then UK Service Dept
in 1998/9, but doesn't mention that in the mid teens it sold off the
Radcomms Dept to Telent.

tony sayer
2023-10-03 14:14:45 UTC
Permalink
In article <ufgs50$3h41c$***@dont-email.me>, JMB99 <***@nospam.net>
scribeth thus
Post by JMB99
Post by Scott
Woody has already clarified this. Check his post.
I think it was initially Castle Transmission Holdings, then Castle
Transmission Ltd(?) before they could become Castle Transmission
International, not sure it went straight to Crown Castle International
(could have also been an intermediate stage).
I have a feeling that National Grid Wireless also went through a couple
of stages, before becoming National Grid Wireless.
And of course with typical corporate BS, they liked all previous names
removed. At one point they sent out loads of new professionally made
metal and plastic signs for ALL sites (even the smallest and most sites
never had signs) but forget to allocate any funds for fitting them so
most were never fitted.
Don't forget National Transcommunications otherwise known as ntl in the
scheme of things...
--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.
Andy Burns
2023-10-03 14:53:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by tony sayer
known as ntl
With their "pig on a skateboard" logotype
Brian Gregory
2023-10-01 18:07:05 UTC
Permalink
I would hope that the BBC would keep more or less the same bitrates on
DAB+ and show the way DAB+ should be done, with it not sounding worse
than FM.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
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