New BBC channels.

[Liz Tuddenham]

I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.

As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

[Tim Jones]

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc

[Liz Tuddenham]

Post by Tim Jones

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc

That was a very niche market which didn't develop in the UK until the
'60s.

[Roderick Stewart]

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by Tim Jones

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc

That was a very niche market which didn't develop in the UK until the
'60s.

And was then largely neglected by the BBC until nearly 1970. Their own
pop station, Radio 1, was only created because the popularity of the
so-called "pirate" stations could by then no longer be ignored.

These offshore radio stations were broadcasting a lot of pop records
that couldn't be heard at all on the BBC, the excuse being that the
BBC were restricted to a certain amount of "needle time" so had to use
live musicians rather than records. This was a restriction until
somehow it wasn't, with the start of Radio 1. Presumably they struck a
deal with the record companies or the Musicians' Union but it seems
unlikely they would have bothered to do this of their own accord if
the public had not been made aware, by the "pirates", of what they
were missing.

Rod.

[Liz Tuddenham]

Post by Roderick Stewart

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by Tim Jones

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc

That was a very niche market which didn't develop in the UK until the
'60s.

And was then largely neglected by the BBC until nearly 1970.

It was more complicated than that. The BBC did a poll of whether
listeners preferred light (orchestral) music or 'pop' music (mainly
guitar groups). The actual results of that poll were not made available
until recently but it was announced that it heavily favoured pop music.
The BBC then used this as the reason to to increase their output from
commercial pop records and scrap its light orchestras.

Eventually they instructed presenters that they were not to play
anything more than a few years old, which effectively banned light music
from the playlists. Even the term "light music", as a genre of music,
was dropped and has hardly ever been mentioned since the 1960s. Several
generations have now grown up without being exposed to it, except as
film scores and programme signature tunes.

Recently the results of the poll were made public and it turns out that
it had been in favour of light music.

Orchestras cost money whereas pop groups on record are cheap by
comparison. Both the BBC and the record companies benefitted
financially from this.

[Scott]

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by Tim Jones

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc

That was a very niche market which didn't develop in the UK until the
'60s.

I lost money years ago in a bet with an American student. I said Elvis
had more hits in the 60s than the 50s and lost.

[Brian Gaff]

I think one of the channels should be called after the watershed and be a
mixture of phone in and guests from all the different sexual orientations
and fetishes, You could even have the erotic novel hour. grin. Note BBC
Sussex used to have a program called after the watershed much like this.
Brian
--
--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by Tim Jones

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc

That was a very niche market which didn't develop in the UK until the
'60s.
--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

[Liz Tuddenham]

Post by Brian Gaff
I think one of the channels should be called after the watershed and be a
mixture of phone in and guests from all the different sexual orientations
and fetishes, You could even have the erotic novel hour. grin. Note BBC
Sussex used to have a program called after the watershed much like this.

It's been done before:

Tanya Glyde use to host the "Midnight Sex Show" on Resonance FM about 20
years ago. It was a well-produced and informative programme on a
subject that most people felt they did not dare ask about. On one
occasion she did a review of sex toys from the annual exhibition of sex
toy manufacturers and on aonther occasion she had represetatives of the
English Collection of Prostitutes in the studio and interviewed them
about several serious matters affecting their trade.

[Brian Gaff]

Actually, you can still get Manitoban and the other main contenders
remastered now on digital.
I've been looking for stations on line that do this, but I cannot find any,
but you can certainly make up your own playlist if you want to.
Brian
--
--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Post by Tim Jones

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

Obviously never heard of Rock n Roll, Elvis etc

[Woody]

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

When I heard that I would have said 60/70/80, but in the light of the
other comment why not 55/65/75?

[John Williamson]

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.

As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
money to run these extra stations coming from?

[Scott]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 19:21:41 +0000, John Williamson

Post by John Williamson

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.
As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
money to run these extra stations coming from?

Depleting the local radio services in England?

[John Williamson]

Post by Scott
On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 19:21:41 +0000, John Williamson

Post by John Williamson
As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
money to run these extra stations coming from?

Depleting the local radio services in England?

Given what I've heard on air lately, that would be difficult.

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by John Williamson

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

Was Rock and Roll (and similar) considered "American"? When did it
become popular here?

Though I fear you're right, and light orchestral will get very little
look in. (There's probably enough material - in the BBC's own vaults if
nowhere else - but it won't be considered "cool".*)

Post by John Williamson
What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.
As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
money to run these extra stations coming from?

And, will they be online only? The announcements I've heard so far have
- I'm sure deliberately - been quiet on that subject. I suspect they
will (or make other, existing, stations go there), as that's their
not-very-well-hidden aim for everything.

* I'm of the narrow generation that considers "cool" to be an
old-fashioned expression (thus not cool!) - popular with those half a
generation earlier, as epitomised by for example the Fonz; however, I'm
aware it came back (in about the late '80s or 90s?0 and stayed.

[Woody]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by John Williamson

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s.  From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

Was Rock and Roll (and similar) considered "American"? When did it
become popular here?
Though I fear you're right, and light orchestral will get very little
look in. (There's probably enough material - in the BBC's own vaults if
nowhere else - but it won't be considered "cool".*)

Post by John Williamson
What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.
As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
money to run these extra stations coming from?

And, will they be online only? The announcements I've heard so far have
- I'm sure deliberately - been quiet on that subject. I suspect they
will (or make other, existing, stations go there), as that's their
not-very-well-hidden aim for everything.
* I'm of the narrow generation that considers "cool" to be an
old-fashioned expression (thus not cool!) - popular with those half a
generation earlier, as epitomised by for example the Fonz; however, I'm
aware it came back (in about the late '80s or 90s?0 and stayed.

The will be DAB+ over air, but since much 'early' music was mono then
will the station(s) be mono?

[Scott]

Post by Woody

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by John Williamson

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s.  From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

Was Rock and Roll (and similar) considered "American"? When did it
become popular here?
Though I fear you're right, and light orchestral will get very little
look in. (There's probably enough material - in the BBC's own vaults if
nowhere else - but it won't be considered "cool".*)

Post by John Williamson
What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.
As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
money to run these extra stations coming from?

And, will they be online only? The announcements I've heard so far have
- I'm sure deliberately - been quiet on that subject. I suspect they
will (or make other, existing, stations go there), as that's their
not-very-well-hidden aim for everything.
* I'm of the narrow generation that considers "cool" to be an
old-fashioned expression (thus not cool!) - popular with those half a
generation earlier, as epitomised by for example the Fonz; however, I'm
aware it came back (in about the late '80s or 90s?0 and stayed.

The will be DAB+ over air, but since much 'early' music was mono then
will the station(s) be mono?

Where will the capacity come from? Will some existing stations move to
DAB+ or will DAB be further degraded?

[Scott]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 19:21:41 +0000, John Williamson

Post by John Williamson

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.
As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
money to run these extra stations coming from?

The licence fee is obviously too high and since the BBC appears to be
cutting its public service output (local radio) to compete with the
commercial sector I suggest they may be in breach of their Charter.
Given the huge change in technology that has taken place, I think they
should bring back Royal Commissions and the next Government should
re-evaluate the role and funding of the BBC.

Could these extra channels not be made subscription services to boost
BBC finances with the licence fee going to core services only?

What about the old days when you paid extra for a colour TV licence?
Could they not apply this principle to digital only services? Then
people wanting the core services only could pay X and those wanting
the add-ons could pay Y. (I appreciate the 'TV licence' technically
does not cover radio but I am making the point in general principle.)

[Scott]

On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 19:21:41 +0000, John Williamson

Post by John Williamson

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

What I heard suggests that the new stations will, basically, be on the
same pattern as many of the commercial stations. The "new" radio 3
sounds remarkably like Classic FM for instance.
As the BBC claim to be too strapped for cash as it is, where is the
money to run these extra stations coming from?

Even if it is very little money, the message to the BBC's opponents
will be that it is overfunded.

[JMB99]

Post by Scott
Even if it is very little money, the message to the BBC's opponents
will be that it is overfunded.

Whatever they do, they will accused of that by their enemies.

[JMB99]

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

There could be a lot in BBC Sound Archive.

[Liz Tuddenham]

Post by JMB99

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

There could be a lot in BBC Sound Archive.

Popular music shows were rarely recorded and kept. With orchestras on
hand, the performances were often live and recordings for repeats were
destroyed after transmission because of copyright restrictions (they
were 'deemed' not to exist).

There are commercial recordings of music from that era, but the
repertoire is fairly limited. It was much more common for a popular
tune to be played by many different orchestras, each with their own
distinctive style, so the BBC could broadcast considerable variety with
only a small repertoire of tunes. A commercial recording represented a
significant investment for a record company, so they would only record
one version of the tune (or at most two) by whichever orchestra they
already had under contract, that they thought was best suited to it.

A significant proportion of the early editions of the BBC training
handbook "The Technique of the Sound Studio" by Alec Nisbett and BBC
training notes for Studio Managers is given over to microphone placement
for recording solo instruments, small combinations of instruments and
light orchestras for popular music. It was a normal bread-and-butter
thing to book a studio, a small band or orchestra, a soloist and an
announcer* to produce a 'live' half-hour light music programme; very
rarely was there any need to record one.

The best source of recordings would be transcription discs for
distribution to overseas transmitting staions and military bases, but
there were often destroyed after they had served their purpose. A lot
of the surviving ones are in bad condition and the equipment to play
them properly is very specialised because they were not recorded to RIAA
standards. A lot of American material of this type has survived, but
relatively little British.


*...and of course, a Studio Engineer, but nobody was concerned about
them.

[charles]

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by JMB99

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

There could be a lot in BBC Sound Archive.

Popular music shows were rarely recorded and kept. With orchestras on
hand, the performances were often live and recordings for repeats were
destroyed after transmission because of copyright restrictions (they
were 'deemed' not to exist).
There are commercial recordings of music from that era, but the
repertoire is fairly limited. It was much more common for a popular
tune to be played by many different orchestras, each with their own
distinctive style, so the BBC could broadcast considerable variety with
only a small repertoire of tunes. A commercial recording represented a
significant investment for a record company, so they would only record
one version of the tune (or at most two) by whichever orchestra they
already had under contract, that they thought was best suited to it.
A significant proportion of the early editions of the BBC training
handbook "The Technique of the Sound Studio" by Alec Nisbett and BBC
training notes for Studio Managers is given over to microphone placement
for recording solo instruments, small combinations of instruments and
light orchestras for popular music. It was a normal bread-and-butter
thing to book a studio, a small band or orchestra, a soloist and an
announcer* to produce a 'live' half-hour light music programme; very
rarely was there any need to record one.
The best source of recordings would be transcription discs for
distribution to overseas transmitting staions and military bases, but
there were often destroyed after they had served their purpose. A lot
of the surviving ones are in bad condition and the equipment to play
them properly is very specialised because they were not recorded to RIAA
standards. A lot of American material of this type has survived, but
relatively little British.
*...and of course, a Studio Engineer, but nobody was concerned about
them.

Last year, I managed to buy a couple of CDs which have been made of
recordings of the BBC Scottish Variety and Scottish Radio Orchestras.

[Woody]

Post by charles

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by JMB99

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

There could be a lot in BBC Sound Archive.

Popular music shows were rarely recorded and kept. With orchestras on
hand, the performances were often live and recordings for repeats were
destroyed after transmission because of copyright restrictions (they
were 'deemed' not to exist).
There are commercial recordings of music from that era, but the
repertoire is fairly limited. It was much more common for a popular
tune to be played by many different orchestras, each with their own
distinctive style, so the BBC could broadcast considerable variety with
only a small repertoire of tunes. A commercial recording represented a
significant investment for a record company, so they would only record
one version of the tune (or at most two) by whichever orchestra they
already had under contract, that they thought was best suited to it.
A significant proportion of the early editions of the BBC training
handbook "The Technique of the Sound Studio" by Alec Nisbett and BBC
training notes for Studio Managers is given over to microphone placement
for recording solo instruments, small combinations of instruments and
light orchestras for popular music. It was a normal bread-and-butter
thing to book a studio, a small band or orchestra, a soloist and an
announcer* to produce a 'live' half-hour light music programme; very
rarely was there any need to record one.
The best source of recordings would be transcription discs for
distribution to overseas transmitting staions and military bases, but
there were often destroyed after they had served their purpose. A lot
of the surviving ones are in bad condition and the equipment to play
them properly is very specialised because they were not recorded to RIAA
standards. A lot of American material of this type has survived, but
relatively little British.
*...and of course, a Studio Engineer, but nobody was concerned about
them.

Last year, I managed to buy a couple of CDs which have been made of
recordings of the BBC Scottish Variety and Scottish Radio Orchestras.

A few years (decades?) ago I got some CDs from the US of things like
Beyond Our Ken/Round The Horne and The Navy Lark. Some seem to be of
original quality but a couple had obviously been recorded off AM radio!
Still good listening nonetheless - they don't make clever and really
funny programs like that any more!

"Hello, I'm Julian and this is my friend Sandy - ooh, its Mr Horne isn't
it?"

"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit Chief"
"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit it is Sir."

[Roderick Stewart]

Post by Woody
A few years (decades?) ago I got some CDs from the US of things like
Beyond Our Ken/Round The Horne and The Navy Lark. Some seem to be of
original quality but a couple had obviously been recorded off AM radio!
Still good listening nonetheless - they don't make clever and really
funny programs like that any more!
"Hello, I'm Julian and this is my friend Sandy - ooh, its Mr Horne isn't
it?"
"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit Chief"
"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit it is Sir."

Bona!

Rod.

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Woody
A few years (decades?) ago I got some CDs from the US of things like
Beyond Our Ken/Round The Horne and The Navy Lark. Some seem to be of

[]

Post by Woody
"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit Chief"
"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit it is Sir."

Bona!
Rod.

He still has his commission:

[jon]

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Woody
A few years (decades?) ago I got some CDs from the US of things like
Beyond Our Ken/Round The Horne and The Navy Lark. Some seem to be of

[]

Post by Woody
"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit Chief"
"Left hand down a teensey weasey bit it is Sir."

Bona!
Rod.

He still has his commission: http://youtu.be/tefY7S7J9T4

No reversing camera....no excuse nowadays.

[Max Demian]

Post by Woody

Post by charles

Post by JMB99

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

There could be a lot in BBC Sound Archive.

Popular music shows were rarely recorded and kept.  With orchestras on
hand, the performances were often live and recordings for repeats were
destroyed after transmission because of copyright restrictions (they
were 'deemed' not to exist).
There are commercial recordings of music from that era, but the
repertoire is fairly limited.  It was much more common for a popular
tune to be played by many different orchestras, each with their own
distinctive style, so the BBC could broadcast considerable variety with
only a small repertoire of tunes.  A commercial recording represented a
significant investment for a record company, so they would only record
one version of the tune (or at most two) by whichever orchestra they
already had under contract, that they thought was best suited to it.
A significant proportion of the early editions of the BBC training
handbook "The Technique of the Sound Studio" by Alec Nisbett and BBC
training notes for Studio Managers is given over to microphone placement
for recording solo instruments, small combinations of instruments and
light orchestras for popular music.  It was a normal bread-and-butter
thing to book a studio, a small band or orchestra, a soloist and an
announcer* to produce a 'live' half-hour light music programme; very
rarely was there any need to record one.
The best source of recordings would be transcription discs for
distribution to overseas transmitting staions and military bases, but
there were often destroyed after they had served their purpose.  A lot
of the surviving ones are in bad condition and the equipment to play
them properly is very specialised because they were not recorded to RIAA
standards.  A lot of American material of this type has survived, but
relatively little British.
*...and of course, a Studio Engineer, but nobody was concerned about
them.

Last year, I managed to buy a couple of CDs which have been made of
recordings of the BBC Scottish Variety  and Scottish Radio Orchestras.

A few years (decades?) ago I got some CDs from the US of things like
Beyond Our Ken/Round The Horne and The Navy Lark. Some seem to be of
original quality but a couple had obviously been recorded off AM radio!
Still good listening nonetheless - they don't make clever and really
funny programs like that any more!
"Hello, I'm Julian and this is my friend Sandy - ooh, its Mr Horne isn't
it?"

"Most of our time is taken up with a criminal practice," (when they were
posing as lawyers).

Apparently "cottage upright" has an alternative meaning to a type of piano.

(It's not clear how much of their"polari" is genuine.)

[Liz Tuddenham]

Max Demian <***@bigfoot.com> wrote:

[...]

Post by Max Demian

Post by Woody
A few years (decades?) ago I got some CDs from the US of things like
Beyond Our Ken/Round The Horne and The Navy Lark. Some seem to be of
original quality but a couple had obviously been recorded off AM radio!
Still good listening nonetheless - they don't make clever and really
funny programs like that any more!
"Hello, I'm Julian and this is my friend Sandy - ooh, its Mr Horne isn't
it?"

"Most of our time is taken up with a criminal practice," (when they were
posing as lawyers).
Apparently "cottage upright" has an alternative meaning to a type of piano.
(It's not clear how much of their"polari" is genuine.)

That was from the '60s and '70s. Comedy in the '50s was "Take it From
Here", "Much Binding in the Marsh" (I can remember hearing an original
broadcast of that) followed later by "Beyond Our Ken", "Meet the
Huggets", "Ray's a Laugh", "Life with the Lyons" ..etc.

"Meet the Huggets" was partly written by Mabel Constanduros and her
nephew Dennis. She had written the very firat radio comedy to be
broadcast on 2LO: "The Buggins's", where she played most of the parts
herself. Commercial recordings of her from the 1920s still survive.

Dennis wrote "At the Luscombes", a comedy sit-com which was broadcast on
the West of England Home Service in the 1950s. It was recorded 'as
live' on disc because the actors were nearly all local amateurs with day
jobs and couldn't spare the time twice a week to make the repeat
broadcast. Fortunately some of those discs survive.

[Liz Tuddenham]

Post by charles

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by JMB99

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

There could be a lot in BBC Sound Archive.

Popular music shows were rarely recorded and kept. With orchestras on
hand, the performances were often live and recordings for repeats were
destroyed after transmission because of copyright restrictions (they
were 'deemed' not to exist).
There are commercial recordings of music from that era, but the
repertoire is fairly limited.

[...]

Post by charles
Last year, I managed to buy a couple of CDs which have been made of
recordings of the BBC Scottish Variety and Scottish Radio Orchestras.

There are some recordings, but not enough to keep a radio station
running for long. If you search YouTube for "Ladies Palm Court
Orchestra:" you will see their repertoire is well over 100 pieces of
light music, which was only a fraction of the total published. I have
been collecting records of these light music pieces since the 1960s and
I have never come across recordings of at least a third of these pieces,
they were only played 'live'.

This was just a 'scratch' orchestra put together for a few short novelty
seasons in the 1990s, but there were dozens of others in the 1950s who
played selections at hotels, seasides, parks and on the BBC for years on
end. The whole genre has been erased from popular history.

[Scott]

On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 17:51:29 +0000, ***@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
[snip]

My mum was an actress and I thought she got 50% as a repeat fee each
time the broadcast was repeated. Does this system exist? If not, are
there some 'grandfather' rights for older material?

[Liz Tuddenham]

Post by Scott
[snip]
My mum was an actress and I thought she got 50% as a repeat fee each
time the broadcast was repeated. Does this system exist? If not, are
there some 'grandfather' rights for older material?

Was this in the 1950s, when most of the recording was done on disk? In
those days only major productions would have been recorded for repeats;
it wasn't unusual to repeat small productions by having the artists come
back and do them again. I believe nowadays repeat fees are all agreed
by a standardised contract system worked out with the relevant unions.

I've only taken part in broacasts where there was no budget for
performer's fees. After one of them I unexpectedly.received a cheque
for 'catering fees' because I had supplied the producer and the
presenter with sandwiches, pork pies and cups of tea. I should have put
cucumber in the sandwiches, then I might have had a repeat fee.

[Richard Tobin]

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't see
why you think not playing it would be "to suit their preconceived
ideas".

-- Richard

[Liz Tuddenham]

Post by Richard Tobin

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't see
why you think not playing it would be "to suit their preconceived
ideas".

Compared with the amount that was broadcast live, very little has
survived on record and the immense popularity it enjoyed has been
ignored. The BBC has attempted to re-write history by abolishing the
term "Light Music" and, as far as recent generations are concerned, they
have succeeded. The modern preconceived ideas are based on what the BBC
tells people happened, not on what actually happened.

Look back at copies of the Radio Times from the 1950s and see how much
of the Light Programme's output was light music, compared to 'pop'.
That's what really happened.

[Woody]

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by Richard Tobin

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't see
why you think not playing it would be "to suit their preconceived
ideas".

Compared with the amount that was broadcast live, very little has
survived on record and the immense popularity it enjoyed has been
ignored. The BBC has attempted to re-write history by abolishing the
term "Light Music" and, as far as recent generations are concerned, they
have succeeded. The modern preconceived ideas are based on what the BBC
tells people happened, not on what actually happened.
Look back at copies of the Radio Times from the 1950s and see how much
of the Light Programme's output was light music, compared to 'pop'.
That's what really happened.

As in MWYW
Steve Race's afternoon music prog
etc
etc

[Ashley Booth]

Post by Liz Tuddenham

In article

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no
light orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how
they plan to revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to
suit their preconceived ideas?

If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't
see why you think not playing it would be "to suit their
preconceived ideas".

Compared with the amount that was broadcast live, very little has
survived on record and the immense popularity it enjoyed has been
ignored. The BBC has attempted to re-write history by abolishing the
term "Light Music" and, as far as recent generations are concerned,
they have succeeded. The modern preconceived ideas are based on what
the BBC tells people happened, not on what actually happened.
Look back at copies of the Radio Times from the 1950s and see how much
of the Light Programme's output was light music, compared to 'pop'.
That's what really happened.

My memories of 'light music' was mainly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_Something_Simple

I turned the radio off when that came on!
--

[Scott]

Post by Ashley Booth

Post by Liz Tuddenham

In article

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no
light orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how
they plan to revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to
suit their preconceived ideas?

If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't
see why you think not playing it would be "to suit their
preconceived ideas".

Compared with the amount that was broadcast live, very little has
survived on record and the immense popularity it enjoyed has been
ignored. The BBC has attempted to re-write history by abolishing the
term "Light Music" and, as far as recent generations are concerned,
they have succeeded. The modern preconceived ideas are based on what
the BBC tells people happened, not on what actually happened.
Look back at copies of the Radio Times from the 1950s and see how much
of the Light Programme's output was light music, compared to 'pop'.
That's what really happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_Something_Simple
I turned the radio off when that came on!

The deal in our house was that we were allowed to listen to Pick of
the Pops (Alan Freeman) in return for my dad listening to Sing
Something Simple.

[Liz Tuddenham]

Post by Scott

Post by Ashley Booth

Post by Liz Tuddenham

In article

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no
light orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how
they plan to revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to
suit their preconceived ideas?

If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't
see why you think not playing it would be "to suit their
preconceived ideas".

Compared with the amount that was broadcast live, very little has
survived on record and the immense popularity it enjoyed has been
ignored. The BBC has attempted to re-write history by abolishing the
term "Light Music" and, as far as recent generations are concerned,
they have succeeded. The modern preconceived ideas are based on what
the BBC tells people happened, not on what actually happened.
Look back at copies of the Radio Times from the 1950s and see how much
of the Light Programme's output was light music, compared to 'pop'.
That's what really happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_Something_Simple
I turned the radio off when that came on!

The deal in our house was that we were allowed to listen to Pick of
the Pops (Alan Freeman) in return for my dad listening to Sing
Something Simple.

That would have been in the 1960s, when the change was under way. The
BBC is claiming that the new channel will play popular music from the
1950s, but I suspect they don't even know what that was.

[charles]

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by Scott

Post by Ashley Booth

Post by Liz Tuddenham

In article

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no
light orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how
they plan to revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to
suit their preconceived ideas?

If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't
see why you think not playing it would be "to suit their
preconceived ideas".

Compared with the amount that was broadcast live, very little has
survived on record and the immense popularity it enjoyed has been
ignored. The BBC has attempted to re-write history by abolishing the
term "Light Music" and, as far as recent generations are concerned,
they have succeeded. The modern preconceived ideas are based on what
the BBC tells people happened, not on what actually happened.
Look back at copies of the Radio Times from the 1950s and see how
much of the Light Programme's output was light music, compared to
'pop'. That's what really happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_Something_Simple
I turned the radio off when that came on!

The deal in our house was that we were allowed to listen to Pick of
the Pops (Alan Freeman) in return for my dad listening to Sing
Something Simple.

That would have been in the 1960s, when the change was under way. The
BBC is claiming that the new channel will play popular music from the
1950s, but I suspect they don't even know what that was.

They could always ask us BBC pensioners

[Scott]

Post by Liz Tuddenham

Post by Scott

Post by Ashley Booth

Post by Liz Tuddenham

In article

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no
light orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how
they plan to revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to
suit their preconceived ideas?

If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't
see why you think not playing it would be "to suit their
preconceived ideas".

Compared with the amount that was broadcast live, very little has
survived on record and the immense popularity it enjoyed has been
ignored. The BBC has attempted to re-write history by abolishing the
term "Light Music" and, as far as recent generations are concerned,
they have succeeded. The modern preconceived ideas are based on what
the BBC tells people happened, not on what actually happened.
Look back at copies of the Radio Times from the 1950s and see how much
of the Light Programme's output was light music, compared to 'pop'.
That's what really happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sing_Something_Simple
I turned the radio off when that came on!

The deal in our house was that we were allowed to listen to Pick of
the Pops (Alan Freeman) in return for my dad listening to Sing
Something Simple.

That would have been in the 1960s, when the change was under way. The
BBC is claiming that the new channel will play popular music from the
1950s, but I suspect they don't even know what that was.

Early 70s. I believe Tom Browne replaced Alan Freeman in 1972. My
parents met Tom Browne once on a ferry to Denmark but we never made
the connection.

[J. P. Gilliver]

Post by Richard Tobin

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't see
why you think not playing it would be "to suit their preconceived
ideas".
-- Richard

Light music was the most popular, but the BBC and record companies
suppressed this fact, claiming that another genre was. The fact that
this resulted in little of it now being available to play does not
counter the rewriting.

[Brian Gaff]

I think what is meant is that many of those who are talking about all this
were not even born back then. Jimmy Young for example was a big band singer,
indeed he recorded for Polidor. So on the earlier incarnations of his show,
he would sing in front of a bbc orchestra. Very few actual records were
played.
Who remembers Victor Sylvester and his strict tempo renderings of music
for dancing to, or the guy who did the Latin stuff, whose name escapes me.
Apparently it is said that one of the younger orchestra leaders at the BBC
used to Moonlight as Lord Rockingham, with a tailed jacket and jiggled
around while conducting a set of musicians who used to also play for the
bbc, as Lord Rockinghams 11.
Brian
--
--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Post by J. P. Gilliver

Post by Richard Tobin

Post by Liz Tuddenham
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?

If they can't play that music because it wasn't recorded, I don't see
why you think not playing it would be "to suit their preconceived
ideas".
-- Richard

Light music was the most popular, but the BBC and record companies
suppressed this fact, claiming that another genre was. The fact that this
resulted in little of it now being available to play does not counter the
rewriting.
--
Science fiction is escape into reality - Arthur C Clarke

[The Other John]

Post by Brian Gaff
the guy who did the Latin stuff, whose name escapes me.

Would that have been Edmundo Ross?

[Scott]

On Sun, 11 Feb 2024 13:40:18 -0000, "Brian Gaff"

Post by Brian Gaff
I think what is meant is that many of those who are talking about all this
were not even born back then. Jimmy Young for example was a big band singer,
indeed he recorded for Polidor. So on the earlier incarnations of his show,
he would sing in front of a bbc orchestra. Very few actual records were
played.

More than that, he famously had a number one with 'Unchained Melody'.

[Brian Gaff]

Knowing them, the latter. I think they have been beaten to the sort of thing
they are talking about by Boom Radio, which seems to have many of the people
they gave the shove to on it.
Brian
--
--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Post by Liz Tuddenham
I see one of the proposed new BBC radio stations (channels?) intends
broadcasting popular music from the 1950, '60s and '70s. From the
interviews I have heard so far, it appears that they don't realise that
by far the most popular music in the 1950s was light orchestral and
nothing like the 'pop' music of the '60s.
As very little of that has survived on records and the BBC has no light
orchestras any more, it will be interesting to hear how they plan to
revive it -- or will they just rewrite history to suit their
preconceived ideas?
--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk