Thanks to Nemo, and especially to you, for all the help with this,
Mark. To correct these, I shall devise for the programme a system
similar to the ones already in place to correct the names and NGRs.
There are one or two points remaining, and I've also added some more
comments ...
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:55:45 +0000, Mark Carver
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveHere the full list of what I've found, excluding the resolutions
already achieved, and also excluding those arising from mis-applied
Using old BBC and IBA guides, these are the correct ones, assuming my guides
are, which they'll most likely to be
Post by Java JiveAmbergate 22 28 25 32 37W A V
As both yourself and nemo and post DSO transmissions suggest, the
original analogue data appears to be correct for that one.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveCaldbeck WH 30 34 28 32 56
Calbeck now Post DSO, all channels in Group A and H
Yes. In a sense this is not a disagreement, the analogue data splits
the transmissions into 4 main as A + C5 as W, while the DSO doc lumps
them together them as one transmission in W.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveCambret Hill BH 44 51 41 47 37
Cambret now post DSO, 44, 41, 47 Still BH
Similarly to Caldbeck, only here it's B for the main 4 + W for C5, and
additionally the main four polarity was wrong in the analogue doc.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveNo info - I had presumed it was a transmitter new with DSO!
Chaigley AV 21 27 24 31
Which parent station ? Can't be a post DSO Tx, it's 4 channel, and using Ch
31 (a non DSO alloction)
Answered by nemo as Winter Hill, so it will be retro-fitted with
DVB-T2 in March.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveChepstow 21 27 24 31 3.1W A V
Chepstow AV 21 27 24 31
NO REAL ERROR - CHANNEL 4/S4C NAMES
Chepstow is a BBC Wenvoe (Wales) and IBA Mendip (Bristol) relay. Carries C4
not S4C, after DSO will be Wenvoe relay for all three muxes
So analogue doc was correct then.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveCilycwm 21 27 24 31 7W A V
Cilycwm AV 21 27 31 24
CHANNEL ORDER
Why worry, doesn't affect aerial usage ?
No, it won't, and therefore it's not critically important, but as the
data will be displayed in full in the calculator, as far as possible I
would like to avoid negative impressions created by any of it being
wrong, and therefore if possible would like to get the channel orders
correct as well.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveDarley Dale 30 48 34 52 16W W V
Darley Dale K/WV 30 48 34 52
Both K and W groups are valid (K covers 21-48)
... but not 52 ...
Post by Mark CarverPost DSO will be 41, 44, 47 Group B but K and W still valid.
So analogue doc was right for that one.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveDerby 48 30 200W W H
Derby K/WH 48 30
Both K and W groups are valid (K covers 21-48)
Post DSO will be 48, 51, 52 Group B but K and W still valid.
But AIUI, K being the narrower banded alternative is preferable for
performance reasons, so that's what I'll use, unless anyone tells me
different.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java Jive14)
Dunoon 21 24 27 31 2W A V
Dunoon AV 21 27 24 31
CHANNEL ORDER
Why worry, doesn't affect aerial usage ?
As above.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java Jive17)
Frome 21 27 24 31 10W A V
Frome AV 21 24 27 31
CHANNEL ORDER
Why worry, doesn't affect aerial usage ?
As above
Thanks, I couldn't tell that from the pics.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveHolmfirth 39 66 56 68 26W C/D V
Holmfirth E/WV 39 66 56 68
BBC and IBA 1989 data shows BBC 1 on 49 (not 39). It must have moved to 39 in
1998 to avoid a clash with Mux D at Emley, thus requiring an aerial group
change from C/D to W (or E). The DVB-T2 mux from Emley starts this March on Ch
39, so there might be another move soon.
Oh gawd! If DVB-T2 is going to start moving all the existing analogue
channels around again, there's no hope! Given Ofcom's analogue data
is already apparently some years out of date, how the devil can an
ordinary member of the public like myself hope to keep up with these
things?
Post by Mark CarverPost DSO it will be 54, 58, 61 so
back to C/D (though Es and Ws will be OK)
Post by Java JiveNo info - Again I had assumed this was a transmitter new with DSO!
Jurby C/DV 54 64
Jurby (along with Ramsey) was an odd relay, only ever carried BBC 1 and 2 on
54 and 64, no ITV or C4. Post DSO it now carries three muxes on 43,46,50 so
has moved from C/DV to B
And is now a relay of Douglas.
As an aside, I can't understand why the Isle of Man is not put in its
own region like the Channel Islands. Since it's a tax haven, I can't
think they are much interested in mainland-oriented regional news and
mainland-oriented advertisements for furniture sales!
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveLes Touillets 56 48 54 52 2kW C/D H
Les Touillets C/DV 56 48 54 52
SECOND?
http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/les-touillets.php
Presuming that the whitish vertical column at the top is the TV TX, as
that is vertical in shape, presumbalby V, and that agrees with post
DSO.
No Les Touillets is (unsually for a high power relay) HP. Group C/D.
The Ofcom data does indeed say V post DSO. I suspect this is wrong, and it
will remain HP.
Anyway you can suggest of finding out for sure? I've mailed Ofcom
already about 3 or 4 issues arising out of DVB-T2, and I was already
awaiting a reply to a mail sent pre-Christmas concerning 50(!) other
problems, so I'd rather avoid troubling them again at least until I've
had a reply to the big first one!
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveNo info - Again I had assumed this was a transmitter new with DSO!
Lochgoilhead AD AV 33 26 23 29
SECOND
(Not to be confused with Lochgoilhead. What does AD stand for?)
Lochgoilhead AD must be an active deflector to feed the main Lochgoilhead site.
Parent station Darvel uses 33,26,23,29 too. It may well have viewers of its
own however. I suspect it will remain Group A following Darvel's 22,25,28 post
DSO allocations.
Ah, AD = Active Deflector (which does what exactly? But don't worry
too much about answering that ...). Google sat photos aren't too hot
in that region, so I'm also unsure of exactly where Lochgoilhead and L
AD are. This is what I wrote about them in my big Christmas present
to Ofcom:
"""
I remain perplexed about Lochgoilhead NS194978 and Lochgoilhead AD
NS190977, the latter of which is only listed under digital
transmissions (and therefore we have no way of knowing whether, as
with Ridge Hill West, this is likely to be an oversight in the
analogue data, or it is a new transmitter post DSO, for which, by the
way, we therefore need the aerial height). Are these really two
different sites, or are they two transmissions from the one site? The
fact that the NGRs are different suggests the former, but a close
examination of the locations in Google Maps satellite view obscures
rather than enlightens:
NS194978
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=56.138623,-4.908107&ll=56.138623,-4.908107&z=18
This just doesn't look right at all. It's in the middle of a forest
where a small relay is likely to be obscured by trees and has no
visible vehicle access. However, in Google there appears to be a
transmitter about 300m ESE of this, at NGR NS196976, and this is
actually marked on OS maps.
NS190977
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=56.137574,-4.914468&ll=56.137574,-4.914468&z=18
This is also a bit questionable. It's not on the highest ground
around and also has no visible vehicle access. However, in Google
Maps there is what might be a transmitter about 130m SE of this, at
NGR NS190976.
However, I note also that it would be easy to misread a hand-written 6
as a 0, which would turn NS196977 into NS190977 as listed, and if the
original location noted down was in fact the former, that's almost
exactly on the transmitter that is marked on OS maps and appears
actually to be there.
So what exactly is the situation with these transmitters?
"""
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveMonksilver 45 48 52 42 15W B V
Monksilver BV 45 48 42 52
CHANNEL ORDER
Why worry, doesn't affect aerial usage ?
As above
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveSt. Brelades 57 67 63 54 8W C/D V
http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/st-brelades.php
Looks to me as though it receives in H (correct for Fremont) and
rebroadcasts in V?
Yes
Thanks for the confirmation.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveSt Neot 39 45 49 42 3.2W B V
St Neot BV 39 42 49 45
CHANNEL ORDER
Why worry, doesn't affect aerial usage ?
As above.
Post by Mark CarverPost by Java JiveWrexham-Rhos 22 28 32 25 200W A V
Wrexham Rhos K/WV 39 28 32 25
The site has jumbled up its analogue allocations several times over the years,
to allow for DTT transmissions. It started life as a two channel relay
carrying BBC 1 Wales on 39, and S4C on 67. So it was Group E, ended life as a
analogue site carrying the four Welsh channels on 39, 28, 32, 67, plus C4
England on 25. Making it Wideband. Post DSO is now 22,25,28 and A Vert
Yes it's just the channel numbers again, but less important here as it
has already switched.
Thanks again for all your help, past and present, Mark.
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